Originally Posted by Tog
Well i just tuned skis. It was incredible, stepping toward the front of the ski dorsiflexing then plantar flexing my way back to the center. Not once did I think lift the toes or foot. Amazing.
No, i don't insist that at all. But that's the reason this tip exists. That's it's usual premise. I've been trying to get you to say what you use it for over the last 5 pages. You still won't say. Neither does Marko. All we get is the ankle opens and closes while skiing. Not exactly news.
It seems that the toe lifters have now moved to a position where the move is opening up the ankle and freeing the foot. Plus we finally have admission that locking up the foot in dorsiflexion is not a good idea. Well praise the lord!
So can we finally lay to rest the idea you're going to move the com by dorsiflexing the feet? We agree this doesn't work?
What's that great sucking sound? This thread.
Look, I sometimes use 'lift the toes to the top of the boot', or better yet, 'lift the top of the foot to the top of the boot' as a trigger. What I ask someone to feel is 1: shin/cuff contact, and 2: pressure along the length of the bottom of the foot from the heel to the end of the metatarsal bones (not the phalanges) . Lifting the toes is simply a trigger for creating a sensation FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY MAINTAINING CUFF CONTACT, FEELING THE SOLE OF THEIR FOOT THROUGH THE ARCH, and keeping the BoS under one's CoM. I really don't understand your insistence that small movements of the foot inside the boot don't/can't trigger larger outcomes up the muscle/skeletal chain. I understand even less why you're insistent on changing our minds and proving us wrong because your unique experience is different. Everyone's mileage varies, TOG. You know this especially if you spend time teaching or coaching. JASP, myself, and others work full time on snow. If we weren't getting the outcome we wanted, we wouldn't bother. I certainly don't mention this to every client I ski with by any means. No one here has said that lifting the toes alone will flex your boot, so please stop insisting that we are, and stop insisting that we haven't told you the outcome we're looking for. Honestly, if I had three minutes on the hill with you, I could show you exactly what the toe lifting trigger can create. A demo is worth a thousand pages of interwebz yip yacking.
Just curious, but what is your teaching/coaching experience? Do you receive instruction or coaching? Not discrediting you if you have none, just trying to understand your preconceptions and where you're coming from. In my experience both coaching and being coached, high level skiing starts with movements in the feet. Exclusively and at all times? Of course not. People who have mastered this are often less aware of the degree they work inside their boots. Beginners, intermediates, struggling L1/2 cert candidates often don't understand that their feet can and must move inside the boot (deliberate movements, not those caused by ill fitting gear). In my experience, it's easier to slow down and use small movements that move the feet UNDER the CoM to show someone how little needs to be done to have large effects on ski/snow interaction and outcomes. If you don't understand this, then I really don't think we have enough common understanding of basic mechanical fundamentals to have a conversation, which is in fact exactly where we seem to be. If you're happy with your skiing, then more power to you. There are plenty of good skiers who have no clue how to effectively help others or even understand why/how they manage to get down the hill. Watch 98% of spouses or parents try to teach their partner or kids how to ski for proof. Edited by markojp - 2/18/16 at 10:17am