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The art of when to scrape

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
So i have a question regarding 'when' to scrape and if it makes a difference scientifically per say and practically as well.

After reading a plethora of post here, skidiva.com, youtube, and other sites on the intraweb thing there is a vast array of opinion on the timing.

I just stated waxing my skis this year and in trying to educate myself from and it interesting that some folks will say wait at least 20+ minutes, to no need to wait, and all in between and beyond.

My minimal understanding is that the ski technically needs enough wax to penetrate the structure/porous portion of the ski. The practice of scrapping, brushing, etc is to remove remove the excess wax and leave behind the wax the ski has absorbed.

Now from what i can gather, as one applies melted wax it starts to heat up the ski and presumably start the process of opening the structure the ski. When one starts to iron the wax /in/on this causes for the wax to then fully penetrate and saturate the structure.

Now at this point does it matter if one waits five minutes (giving the scrapee time for a refill) and scrape when the wax is starting to harden or wait 20+ minutes (or however long) and scrape when it is fully harden? Does scraping too soon 'scrape' wax that has been already absorbed by the ski, thus not allowing the ski to fully accept the necessary wax?

Thanks much
post #2 of 22
Per Dominator Tom on some other post, three hours, in order to allow the wax to "anneal", whatever that is. I leave them over night.
post #3 of 22
The exact same post on here and pugski?
post #4 of 22

For Dominator waxes (most likely it is the same for other companies):

 

Sufficient time must be allowed between ironing and scraping: When the wax is melted (liquid), the wax blocks are in random positions, away from each other. As the wax cools and solidifies, the blocks are on top of each other but they are not stacked well and internal friction is high. After some time the blocks organize themselves to the tight deck and the minimum internal friction is achieved. The cooling must be slow, if it happens too quickly (like taking a warm ski outside) the blocks freeze in a position that has higher internal friction. Typical “cooling” times between ironing and scraping are:

- Overnight for very soft waxes.
- Three hours for normal (pink, universal) waxes.
- One hour for cold range waxes.
- Around 15 minutes for extreme cold waxes.

If sufficient waiting time is not available, paste or rub-on waxes are the best options.

http://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/wax-science-demystified.pdf

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post #5 of 22

I put the skis outside tell they cool completely.  sometimes 1 hour is plenty when it is cold.  Works for me.  Sometimes just leave overnight in cold garage and scrape the next day.

post #6 of 22

I sometimes scrape after 30 minutes or so, I sometimes leave them cool overnight...  It doesn't seem to have any effect on how the ski glides when I get back on snow or how long until I have to wax them again.

post #7 of 22
It depends on the wax. Recently I used a CH4 hard wax for our crazy cold weather and I scraped that maybe 25 minutes after I took it off the bench. For a warner wax like CH8, I'll keep it on 3 hours plus or typically overnight.

I will try to scrape the harder waxes off sooner than later because they dry fast and are a bear to scrape. Some people wax then immediately scrape, aka hot scrape, but that is normally to clean the base and they will apply another wax for glide.
post #8 of 22
Whatever you do, don't listen to the people that make the wax and actually test it. That would just be outrageous.
post #9 of 22

If I don't want to wait I just put them outside for a few minutes.

post #10 of 22

The question, though, is whether the best practices described above are tenth-of-a-second-when-you-are-racing effects, or something the typical home tuner will notice.

post #11 of 22
I think picking the right temp wax is more important than how long you wait till you scrape. We are in a below zero stretch and I scraped right after I finished the second ski. My speeds were on par with what I've done in the past. Maybe Dominator is different but I use Swix wax.
post #12 of 22
Hydrocarbon waxes behave basically the same. Brands wouldn't matter.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Whatever you do, don't listen to the people that make the wax and actually test it. That would just be outrageous.

:ROTF Thumbs Up

post #14 of 22

Now that it is in the teens and I'm using 6 grade Swix wax, I scrape right after ironing pretty well.

Otherwise, a thick layer of the stuff will just chip off in spots when you scrape.

After I scrape to a thin layer, I let the wax crystallize for a while before finish scraping and brushing.

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

Now that it is in the teens and I'm using 6 grade Swix wax, I scrape right after ironing pretty well.

Otherwise, a thick layer of the stuff will just chip off in spots when you scrape.

After I scrape to a thin layer, I let the wax crystallize for a while before finish scraping and brushing.

Leaving too much wax on!

 

Use Fiberlene/Fiberlene Sheet with your last pass!

post #16 of 22

Interesting, guess I should try leaving it overnight some time.  My typical method is wax one, wax the other and then scrape and brush them in that order.  Typically the cheap green RaceWax Cold Temperature Hydrocarbon Ski Wax since it is always cold here and the snow is more like a skating rink than snow ;)  Their directions say to let it get to room temp or overnight - room temp kind of depends on the outdoor temperature since I don't turn the heat on in the shop unless it starts getting under 40F or so.

post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post

...My typical method is wax one, wax the other and then scrape and brush them in that order...

First thanks all for the responses. Im not a racer nor looking to shed time of the clock. I have been using hertel/purl all temp type of wax mixed in with cold weather wax at about 3:2 ratio. Also, using the method @Oldjeep mentioned. Will need to try and leaving the wax on for longer as well to see since it seems that the rational is to get glide wax and ski warm enough in order for the wax to penetrate/be absorbed by the warm opened up ski base, then allowing the wax and ski to cool in order for the ski to 'capture/retain' the wax.
post #18 of 22

I 've been leaving the wax on for a few hours for years. I tend to touch up the tune on the skis each day after skiing. That's normally before 4PM or there about's.  If I wax them I'll wait until after dinner and before I settle down to watch TV to scrape them. Which seems to be about 3 or so hours. I sometimes have to adjust the time if we're going out that evening.

post #19 of 22

When I am doing the tune at home I wait overnight and the wax does seem to hold up better. When I am doing daily touch-ups on a trip I buff in " Zuper " wax with a Rays Way cloth and tube and get great results with a lot less effort then a cork

post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
 

For Dominator waxes (most likely it is the same for other companies):

 

Sufficient time must be allowed between ironing and scraping: When the wax is melted (liquid), the wax blocks are in random positions, away from each other. As the wax cools and solidifies, the blocks are on top of each other but they are not stacked well and internal friction is high. After some time the blocks organize themselves to the tight deck and the minimum internal friction is achieved. The cooling must be slow, if it happens too quickly (like taking a warm ski outside) the blocks freeze in a position that has higher internal friction. Typical “cooling” times between ironing and scraping are:

- Overnight for very soft waxes.
- Three hours for normal (pink, universal) waxes.
- One hour for cold range waxes.
- Around 15 minutes for extreme cold waxes.

If sufficient waiting time is not available, paste or rub-on waxes are the best options.

http://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/wax-science-demystified.pdf

cleardot.gif


I would pretty much second this above.  Waxes are best cooled at 'room' temps.  Never place outside to cool.  Then you need to do as I do in this video, or just don't wax at all because if you don't scrape and brush well, you are wasting your time!

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


I would pretty much second this above.  Waxes are best cooled at 'room' temps.  Never place outside to cool.  Then you need to do as I do in this video, or just don't wax at all because if you don't scrape and brush well, you are wasting your time!

 

Sometimes "good enough" is truly good enough. My skis always act way better with a quick waxing, speed-scrape (sometimes while the wax is still warm! :eek), and no-brushing than if I let the bases dry out. The skis go on the tuning bench every 2-3 days anyway, so it's nearly no extra effort to run the iron over them. Besides, I'm mostly on the edges, not the bases. 

 

Remember, the sport's called skiing, not tuning! 

post #22 of 22
Lets not let science get in the way here.

... Off to score some pine tar and animal fat for my bases.
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