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MA Please - Page 2

post #31 of 38
The art of skiing is kind of a kook, saying things like you have more control skidding turns and you can't control speed carving. Take it with a gain of salt.
Anyone talking physics and claiming centrugal forces exist is full of it.
Quote:
Centrifugal force is an outward force apparent in a rotating reference frame; it does not exist when measurements are made in an inertial frame of reference.

There are plenty of photos of skiing with Hircher with his feet apart, more than there are ones with his feet glued together, to many PMTS skiers dismay.
Edited by clink83 - 1/19/16 at 9:26am
post #32 of 38
 

 

 

I think the more stable term better than “stance” that we are seeking for this discussion may be “stance width”.

 

MH is not necessarily skiing with this measure of boot proximity with a real-time intent to do so. Rather, it is a modification result based on turn development that is executed without thought and, more so, triggered by conditioning. In a race course at that speed, there is no time for cognition and it is one of many moves that he has at launch ready status throughout the entire run. Close boot proximity is the “go-to” of subconsciously triggered execution for racers in a flush, turns where they really have to stretch their feet to reach and making corrections to name a few.

 

In regards to close boot proximity for recreational skiers, I believe this move becomes most significant in its use of real-time intent in addressing powder, bumps and screwing around trying to emulate Stein Eriksen. Other than for those tactical reasons, I, for one, am completely sold on the naturally derived stance width as dictated by pelvis width and highly dependant on correct boot alignment. For higher level skiers that always ski in the conditions that regularly warrant close boot proximity, it is no longer retained as a tactic and is likely more drilled in as regular technique, similar to a racer.

post #33 of 38

Your narrow stance is very good unless your feet are locked together.  Walking width is the correct stance width--that's how your body has been balancing itself since you were a year old.  You absolutely need to lighten the inside ski by pulling that knee up.  The more weight you have on the outside ski, the more it bends and the better it turns you.

 

Are you back on your heels in some of these shots?  Ski on the balls of your feet all the time.  Hinge forward at the ankles to get your body's center of mass (somewhere in your torso) forward over your skis' sweet spots.

 

Drills:

--Double pole drag where you drag both poles pressed hard down into the snow.  If you outside pole tip comes up in the air, you know you aren't angulating.  Do the double pole drag all the way down a run.  No cheating, keep that outside pole tip dragging hard in the snow all the time.

--Double pole drag with counter.  As you drag both poles hard into the snow, rotate your body--from the hips upward--toward the outside of the turn.  Your arms follow with your body, not lead it.  You will start with your poles equally out to the sides and end up with the inside pole tip up near the tip of your inside ski and the outside pole tip downhill from your outside heel.  The more counter the better.  The earlier you get fully countered, the better.  Conventional wisdom is to "ski into counter," but there is no biomechanical reason to wait for this.

--Tilt your pelvis and shoulders higher on the inside of the turn.  Left turn, lift the left side of your pelvis as much as you can; lift the right side for right turns.

--Don't allow the inside pole to drag on the snow.  Lift the inside pelvis, shoulder, arm to keep the pole out of the snow.

--Poles across the kneecaps.  Feel that hollow at the top of your kneecaps?  Hold your poles across your knees with them settled into those hollows.  Ski keeping the poles in those hollows.  Don't let the poles get pulled up on the outside leg.

--Turn with the tail (only the tail) of the inside ski lifted a small bit off the snow.  Lifting the whole ski off the snow throws many into the back seat.  Keep the lifted ski pulled strongly back as mentioned above.

 

Not drills:

--Medium firm grip on the pole, reach way downhill, down the fall line from your outside heel.  This pulls your body into a good position.

--Do not push your inside foot forward as you counter.  Pull it back strongly all the time through every turn.  The sharper and steep the turn, the stronger it needs to be pulled back.

 

Photo #2...too square to your skis.  You should be facing the camera from the hips up.  Hands should not be palms inward.  Left side from foot, hip, shoulder, hand should be higher and more forward (not the foot, the rest of the body).  Right side should be back and the right hand reaching the pole down the hill.

 

Photo #4...picture yourself with your feet where they are, your hips & torso turned to the left, pelvis & shoulders tilted higher on their right sides, right arm & pole forward with the tip up near your ski tip, left arm & pole reaching down the fall line from your heel ready for the next pole tap.  The pole tap should not involve an arm swing.  Just a twitch of the wrist to tap the point on the snow, 'cuz it's already in position.

 

 

Marcel Hirscher.  His skis are aimed to our left, and his hips & shoulders are aimed to our right.  His right hand is low, but at these angles can't get any higher.  Narrow stance, right boot next to left knee, max vertical separation of the feet.  His angulation is shown in the difference between the angle of his left leg and of his spine.  Most of us only dream of skiing like this, but we can use the same fundamentals every turn.

post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
 

Your narrow stance is very good unless your feet are locked together.  Walking width is the correct stance width--that's how your body has been balancing itself since you were a year old.  You absolutely need to lighten the inside ski by pulling that knee up.  The more weight you have on the outside ski, the more it bends and the better it turns you.

 

Are you back on your heels in some of these shots?  Ski on the balls of your feet all the time.  Hinge forward at the ankles to get your body's center of mass (somewhere in your torso) forward over your skis' sweet spots.

 

 

ssg,

 

Walking width is a pretty wide stance for skiing in balance.  It's quite a chore!  You haven't been walking while balancing on hillsides or alps since you were a year old.  One to two finger widths gap between boots is ideal for most skiers.  For those with a very wide pelvis, up to 4 finger widths.  (Wider yet for competition skiing on GS skis, but the attendant momentum from non-recreational speeds makes things work then, provided you have a solid release.)

 

Skiing on the balls of your feet means you're merely in the front section of the backseat compartment or possibly almost but not quite neutral.  The sweet spot is skiing on your heels ... much forward of skiing on the balls of your feet.

post #35 of 38

With only a few photos I think there is a lot that isn't seen.  What I see in a lot of upper level skiers is that all the mechanics are there, but out of sync with one another. I suspect this is partially the case in the OP's situation.  If the body is leaning inside as it is at the end of the apex of the turn it indicates that whatever crossover is there is coming LATE and the body is taking too long a path between turns as a result, diminishing angulation, proper pressure distribution, yada yada. 

Quote:
 Rich666 said: I think it's a good regular reminder that a lesson in of itself will not produce immediate improvement and, rather, will be what your take-away is and what you do with it. In general, anyone who thinks they will exit a class a better skier is usually misinformed

I don't think I agree with this statement in its totality.  If you're teaching someone pure mechanics on groomed runs getting immediate results (sometimes huge results) is often possible by addressing the core issues.  Too many instructors try to correct symptoms and affectation rather than the root cause of the problems that cause those affectations.  Now, if you're talking technical skiing such as bumps, much more than pure mechanics is involved and requires a lot of mileage and experience to fully absorb the lesson. 

post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

ssg,

Walking width is a pretty wide stance for skiing in balance.  It's quite a chore!  You haven't been walking while balancing on hillsides or alps since you were a year old.  One to two finger widths gap between boots is ideal for most skiers.  For those with a very wide pelvis, up to 4 finger widths.  (Wider yet for competition skiing on GS skis, but the attendant momentum from non-recreational speeds makes things work then, provided you have a solid release.)

Skiing on the balls of your feet means you're merely in the front section of the backseat compartment or possibly almost but not quite neutral.  The sweet spot is skiing on your heels ... much forward of skiing on the balls of your feet.
Interesting. Let's here more about that 'heel' thing.
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip Ripply View Post


Interesting. Let's here more about that 'heel' thing.

 

Sure. 

 

First, having weight on the heel can mean that you're waaayyyy in the back seat.  That's not what I am talking about.

 

As you move forward from way back, however you do it (e.g. pull feet back), pressure moves forward from your heel through your arch and possibly up into the ball of the feet.  If it sets in on the ball of the feet and stays there, you're either exhibiting your primate monkey swinging through the trees instinct to plantar flex to gain grip or you could use a fore-aft alignment tweak.  In either case, you're blocking yourself from getting even more forward. 

 

If you relax your foot, you can get much further forward (e.g. after pulling feet back farther and harder) and you'll get grip and turning power on even steep ice.  Relaxing your monkey foot to permit the ankle to dorsiflex further shifts the weight back onto the heel; more precisely, it removes the forefoot as a possible base of support and only the hindfoot remains to carry the bulk of the weight.

 

This is a very good thing alignment- and balance-wise because the human foot is designed to accept major loads on the hindfoot and on the outer / lateral rim of the foot ... not spread across the metatarsal heads.  Furthermore, the heel cup of your footbed is where the strongest alignment accommodations are made.

 

If you get forward enough, the torque to keep your body upright now comes from your booster strap rather than from your forefoot.  A good booster strap has more predictable and controllable give than your forefoot, making it easier to precisely control your fore and aft excursions.  And you'll have a chance of making wicked turns on steep ice.

post #38 of 38

 

Rich666 said: I think it's a good regular reminder that a lesson in of itself will not produce immediate improvement and, rather, will be what your take-away is and what you do with it. In general, anyone who thinks they will exit a class a better skier is usually misinformed

 

 

Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post 

I don't think I agree with this statement in its totality.  If you're teaching someone pure mechanics on groomed runs getting immediate results (sometimes huge results) is often possible by addressing the core issues.  Too many instructors try to correct symptoms and affectation rather than the root cause of the problems that cause those affectations.  Now, if you're talking technical skiing such as bumps, much more than pure mechanics is involved and requires a lot of mileage and experience to fully absorb the lesson. 

 

I would agree that the "totality" does not include beginner scenarios, is an influential dynamic only at higher levels at a certain preponderance and is only speculation as I have not conducted a survey, of course. I did notice that you chose to exclude the words the immediately following the quote you captured that goes on: "short of the few pieces of advice that does actually result in an immediate correction." This statement immediately mitigates any level of "severity" one may perceive from the quote and, might I say, to cut it off right there is somewhat intentionally misleading to make a point. While better to make a point that way with one's own words, it's no big deal. I just don't miss much.

 

I have some experience with this having taught, having seen how friends do after lessons and knowledgeable regarding how new movement patterns need regular reinforcement or any new changes and efforts you may see at the end of a lesson is simply, for a lot of average blokes, not be there soon after. Happens all the time and it is an element that instructors have no control over so they shouldn't feel slighted by this in the least. I used to be a career coach and gave many types of workshops which always included a follow up reinforcement plan. We often saw many new job seekers that literally thought they were a better networker immediately upon completion of the workshop. We always snickered about that privately and knew from years of experience that immediate effect was never true from most career dev workshops. Why do football, baseball, soccer and literally every other sport in the world stress almost mind numbing repetition of all the movements associated with competition? Because they will lose access to that movement pattern otherwise.

 

None the less, it is a healthy creed to go by for anyone desiring better technique. Wouldn't You agree?

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