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Carving skis for an advanced intermediate noob....[for Colorado]

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 

I need a used carving ski. I am 6'3" 215 lbs.... and resort ski on groomers for the most 95% or the time. My current skis skid like crazy. Looking for lighter weight skis that  can handle carving my overweight ass around the fast blacks and blues ........and my big ass boots (I have size `14 shoe) and skis weigh a ton.

I am wholly ignorant of skis and bought a pair of all mountain skis a few years ago when first learning to ski. 

 

What length should I get for better turning and controlled speed? my current skis kind of wobble on me when I get going really fast downhill... especially if I do not keep some weight on an edge.

any help for an ignoramus would be appreciated.

post #2 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

I need a used carving ski. I am 6'3" 215 lbs.... and resort ski on groomers for the most 95% or the time. My current skis skid like crazy. Looking for lighter weight skis that  can handle carving my overweight ass around the fast blacks and blues ........and my big ass boots (I have size `14 shoe) and skis weigh a ton.

I am wholly ignorant of skis and bought a pair of all mountain skis a few years ago when first learning to ski. 

 

What length should I get for better turning and controlled speed? my current skis kind of wobble on me when I get going really fast downhill... especially if I do not keep some weight on an edge.

any help for an ignoramus would be appreciated.


Welcome to EpicSki!  Have you heard the term "Clydesdale" in relation to sporting equipment?  I added a tag link under Topics Discussed (right hand column).  Click that to see a list of relevant threads.  Do a little reading, then come back with more questions that are more specific to you.

 

How did you go about buying the boots?  I skied with a good friend your size long ago.  He ended up buying a cheap ski set because the rental shop on the mountain (in the southeast) didn't have boots big enough or skis set up with a binding for boots that big.  He was a good skier as a teen who hadn't skied for ten years, but knew he would be skiing more so it was worth the investment.  Back then he boots, skis, and poles for about $200.

 

Paging @XLTL , @bttocs , a couple of friendly Clydes.

post #3 of 33
Some mint used volkl 5 stars, allstars or tigersharks 175 would be a good bet.

168 too short at your height and weight. $100-$200 max right there.

Fischer RX 8 175 nice choice too but look out for delam

Size 14 boots are hard to find if you need an upgrade/ a list of your current gear would help further discussion.

Sub 70 under the boot sole ski is what u r looking for...

All of the above I mention are awesome groomer skis that are easy to handle - engage the ski tips and roll em on edge and off you go!
post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 

My wife and I went to Christy sports and were fitted for boots. Paid $250-300 as I recall for the boots. They seem good though my heel rises up now and then . Don't know if I should rethink them or not. Got some used all mountain Rossignal experience 88s I think.... maybe 2012 version... have to look? 

post #5 of 33
Thread Starter 

Sorry.... sub-70 under the boot sole?  What you talking about Willis??

post #6 of 33
Thread Starter 

Volkl Supersport T50 5 Star skis 175cm w/ Marker Comp 1400 Integrated Bindings      $279.... worth it?  I know shit about bindings.  found on Ebay in Vail. Trying to obtain by weekend to give them a go up at Winter Park.

post #7 of 33

Great ski, but too much money at $279.

 

Also over 10 year old so some shops may not work on the binding....check the indemnification list. 

 

http://www.gondyline.com/indemnified.php

 

If this was to be a shop purchase and they would set and test the bindings I would pay $200 for a 175 T50 5 star. That is the first year 5 stars and was a real game changer of a ski. It would certainly get you to where you want to go - Make sure you go view some demos on line of modern skiing.....you'll need to adapt your movement patterns to shaped sidecut....not difficult just different from what you are used to. The difference is clear and any good modern demonstration skiing on groomed terrain will show it.  I've linked a few videos in my beginner tips thread. CSIA, Italian demo team, Josh Foster are a few good sources of visual learning. The material avail for free now on the www is absolutely mind blowing!

 

Enjoy your quest and welcome to epicski. 

 

(70 is the ski width under the boot, most skis are marked with the tip tail and waist dims - all of my examples are)

post #8 of 33
Depending on the fitter you may want to check your boot fit again.

If your heel is rising off the boot board, you may not be in the right size boot for you. See the ask the boot fitters forum for a better understanding on how a boot should fit.

http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitting-which-boot-will-work-for-me

Shoe sizes are not a good indicator of boot sizes. Usually we want you to go down at least one size from a street shoe, maybe even 2 sizes. Your fitter should have done a "shell" fit. This is also explained in the articles at the top of the boot fitters forum.

Most carving skis should be along the narrower side. As mentioned less then or around 70mm underfoot (middle number in many ski dimensions) would be a good start.
post #9 of 33

If you like carving groomers, a recreational version of a race ski is a good choice. Look for something with a nominal turn radius of about 15 meters and a waist width between 65 and 75mm. Think "beer-league cheater GS ski" and you'll be in the ballpark.  Since you're in Colorado where the snow is soft and you get a lot of fresh, make sure you get a ski with metal in it - this will allow it to bust through crud better than a softer no-metal ski.

 

As for specific models, are you looking to buy new or used?

post #10 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

Volkl Supersport T50 5 Star skis 175cm w/ Marker Comp 1400 Integrated Bindings      $279.... worth it?  I know shit about bindings.  found on Ebay in Vail. Trying to obtain by weekend to give them a go up at Winter Park.

 

This was a great ski in it's day.  I'm now on my fifth pair of skis since I retired my five stars, and mine were a year newer than this model (they dropped the T50 designation the second year).  May be a good choice if they haven't been skied on too much, but if they've seen 20+ days a season they are probably dead.  I'd keep looking.

 

I'd suggest cooling your heels this weekend and just hitting the demo center.  ~$50 should get you a full day of demo skiing - try out four or five of the latest models in various lengths and see what works for you.  Most ski models don't change all that much from year to year other than the top sheet, so you might be able to find a used pair of whatever you like. 

 

Or you may find that it's not the skis...

post #11 of 33
2 more thoughts

DChan is correct heel lift is a poor fit. If the boots are comfortable and you are certain you can maintain an athletic stance in them you might try swapping the factory insole for something like a Superfoot green. Might raise you a bit higher in the boot and get rid of the lift. However at 6'3" and over 210 lbs it will take a lot of boot to keep you in a good skiing position. You probably need at least a 110 flex. You can do the groomer zoomers cheap - boot for you to progress might require you spend some cash. Can't loose with the Superfeet tho just move em to subsequent pairs!

Re ski's re read my post - I said "mint"

Mint means mint less than 15 days on the hill or so. Don't be tempted by junk or used up gear!
post #12 of 33
A 6'3 215lb skier needs to be on a boot at the minimum of 120 flex, and a 175cm ski is going to be too short unless it has a SL radius. Think skis in the 180-190cm range. Maby a 177cm at the minimum if you aren't going fast.

If you wear a 14 shoe you can probably fit into a 29-30 shell, depending on your foot shape. Most decent boots come in those sizes I think. You don't want to get too soft of a boot though, I'm the OPs size and in spring conditions a 130 flex boot will collapse quite easy. A boot like the head raptor 130, which has spine bolts that allows it to be a 120/130/140 is a good choice for a tall guy so you can change the flex as the temps change.

Those experience 88s are a decent carving skis, I think your problem is boot related. If the E88s aren't enough ski, I would look at the Castle mx88. Going to a 60-70mm ski in Colorado is kind of a bad idea, even if you stay on the runs.
Edited by clink83 - 1/12/16 at 9:52am
post #13 of 33
Thread Starter 

looking for used... want to spend under $350

post #14 of 33
Thread Starter 

man. this forum is fantastic. I will demo this weekend... thanks for all the advice... 

 

My boots are Diablo Voodoo       Cosmos SX 290/305  ?....   347 written on bottom

post #15 of 33
Thread Starter 

or new of course..... trying to stay under $350 but would go $400

post #16 of 33
Go see a real boot fitter first. If you boots are too big you'll have trouble carving on any ski.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

man. this forum is fantastic. I will demo this weekend... thanks for all the advice... 

 

My boots are Diablo Voodoo       Cosmos SX 290/305  ?....   347 written on bottom


Is that a Dalbello (not diablo?)

 

Since the VooDoo is more of a park/freestyle boot, I'm going to guess fairly soft. The reviews say "vario" on flex index. One of the more knowledgeable retail/gear heads can probably give you a better idea.

 

A 347 written on the bottom means a Boot Sole Length or (BSL) of 347. In current year shells the closest would be a 30/30.5 mondo shell. The "cosmo SX 290/305" I suspect is the stamp on the liner or plastic part of the liner meaning it is the same plastic molding used in liners from 29.0-30.5

 

A 30/30.5 shell would be appropriate if not a little tight for a 14 mens shoe size (good thing)  so I'm going to presume that the fitter did a shell fit and fitted you in the proper boot.. If they had handed you a size "14" you would have gotten a 32.x boot.

 

So if you are having a little bit of heel lift, maybe there is just a little bit of instep space or there is something in your technique causing you to lift your heel. without seeing you ski and working with you however it would be very hard to tell. Being able to over flex the boot may cause the heel to lift too.

 

Just to explore a few other things, When's the last time you had your skis tuned? The Experience 88 should hang on pretty well if properly tuned.

 

Almost all skis (especially wide turny skis) will feel wobbly at speed if you don't keep them on edge so that's sort of expected. If they are extremely wobbly maybe they are too short? You didn't give a length. Those skis are a mixed off piste and frontside ski. A more dedicated front side ski sounds like it might suit you better. Demo some 74-82 under foot skis.

 

The last thing, Lessons. Many people that "think" or "claim" to be expert carvers have a different view of themselves than what is actually happening. Set your ego aside and get someone to watch or video you.

 

It's a humbling experience but very revealing and helpful if you really want to improve.

 

 

DC

post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 

Okay. I am sorry. My wife was relaying info while I was at work. I dont know what went wrong here.....

 

My skis are Rossignol  experience  /E98......  R20/ 180   measure.. 139,98,128    

post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

Okay. I am sorry. My wife was relaying info while I was at work. I dont know what went wrong here.....

 

My skis are Rossignol  experience  /E98......  R20/ 180   measure.. 139,98,128    


What those numbers mean is that you have the Rossignol Experience E98, length 180cm, 139-98-128 (width at tip-underfoot-tail in mm).  When someone suggests "88" they mean 88mm underfoot.  Skiers in Colorado tend to like wider skis than people who ski in the northeast because the snow conditions are quite different between the two regions.

post #20 of 33
The voodoo is marked as a 80-90 flex boot. That's like a pair of sneakers on a 6'3 200+lb skier, and 3 piece boots aren't exactly known for being the best tool for driving carving skis. That's going to hold the OP back, regardless of skis.
post #21 of 33

Yeah, right, Bill Johnson was never able to carve in his Raichle Flexxons, nor Glen Plake in his Dalbellos.  I've owned three pairs of cabrio boots;  Dalbello Krypton Cross ID, Full Tilt Classic and Head Hammer 110.  I have no trouble carving with my Fire Arrow 84 EDT's, Atomic ST11's or Head Strong Instinct Ti with either the Full Tilt or Head boots(Dalbello's are gone).  It is just nonsense to say a cabrio boot will hold the OP back, when what counts is how the boot fits the skier's foot and the skier's ability.  The OP will probably have trouble advancing because the boot is too soft, not because it is a cabrio design.  The width of his skis will also hold him back, a 98mm ski isn't conducive to learning to carve.


Edited by mtcyclist - 1/12/16 at 10:02pm
post #22 of 33

Paul, Experience 98's in a 180 length shouldn't be bad for Colorado groomers. The boots might be a little soft for your size but you should still be able to carve a turn with them. One thing you said in your original post caught my eye and no one else has commented on it. That is "skis kind of wobble on me when I get going really fast downhill... especially if I do not keep some weight on an edge". This is typically a symptom of getting your weight back; center of mass behind base of support. Since your boots are soft you should be able to flex the ankles to pressure the fronts of the ski, think pressure forward not on the edge. As you finish a turn it is natural to be back a little and you need to recenter or move your pressure slightly forward to start the next turn. This is done by either moving your upper body forward or pulling the feet back; I find it easier to pull the feet back.

There may be another thing happening as a result of your description of "wobble ...especially if I do not keep some weight on an edge". This may be the result of not having upper/ lower body separation. In other words your shoulders are following the direction your skis are pointed rather than more down the fall line. The steeper it gets the more important this is.

There is an easy way to find out if these things are indeed happening. The next time you go out take a lesson. Tell the instructor you want to carve better and eliminate the wobble at speed. You may find you don't need new equipment. If a change is needed, the instructor will also be able to advise you on what equipment will work better for you.

post #23 of 33
Thread Starter 

Thanks again guys. I will look into some stiffer boots. I kind of think that may be where I am losing some control. I definitely need to work on technique as the post about weight and position feel right on the money for what my upper body does when I turn at speed on blacks and what not. I feel like my upper body is often a bit out of position. In retrospect I feel like my feet more and turn too much in my boots and that is where some of my ski control issues come from....especially my right foot for some reason. I am taking my skis in to get tuned as I have not done that for 3 years. 

 

So from what I have taken in..... I need (maybe Stiffer boots) for more upper  intermediate level "carving" and turning control at speed and maybe try some slightly narrower under foot skis. Is there and ideal width then now that we've established I'm a Colorado skier who stays mostly on groomed steep trails with no bumps.  75-85?   not sub 70.

 

I do pretty well on my current skis btw.... just feel like I'm a bit stuck. need to watch the videos recommended and will look into lessons specific to this issue. I actually just feel like my skis aren't as responsive and lively as it seems others are as we fly down hills. The more I think about it the more it seems like my boots. things feel heavy and sluggish... ??

post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

Thanks again guys. I will look into some stiffer boots. I kind of think that may be where I am losing some control. I definitely need to work on technique as the post about weight and position feel right on the money for what my upper body does when I turn at speed on blacks and what not. I feel like my upper body is often a bit out of position. In retrospect I feel like my feet more and turn too much in my boots and that is where some of my ski control issues come from....especially my right foot for some reason. I am taking my skis in to get tuned as I have not done that for 3 years. 

 

So from what I have taken in..... I need (maybe Stiffer boots) for more upper  intermediate level "carving" and turning control at speed and maybe try some slightly narrower under foot skis. Is there and ideal width then now that we've established I'm a Colorado skier who stays mostly on groomed steep trails with no bumps.  75-85?   not sub 70.

 

I do pretty well on my current skis btw.... just feel like I'm a bit stuck. need to watch the videos recommended and will look into lessons specific to this issue. I actually just feel like my skis aren't as responsive and lively as it seems others are as we fly down hills. The more I think about it the more it seems like my boots. things feel heavy and sluggish... ??


You are on the right track.  Consider investing some time and money in a few lessons before spending too much more on gear.  I skied on relatively soft boots for a couple years as I improved from a low advanced to solid advanced skier.  I was working with a Level 3 instructor at home in the flatlands, as well as Level 3 instructors during trips out west.  When I bought new boots during late season sales last March, I did go for stiffer boots but I can carve pretty much the same in my old boots now that I actually had an idea of how to carve in a variety of terrain.  I'm a visual learner, so videos and books don't help nearly as much as an hour or two with an experienced instructor.

post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 

where are the links?

post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post
 

where are the links?


Links to what?

 

I added tag links for related EpicSki content under Topics Discussed in the right hand column (Desktop mode).

post #27 of 33
Thread Starter 
I was trying to find the above
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57 View Post

Great ski, but too much money at $279.

Also over 10 year old so some shops may not work on the binding....check the indemnification list. 

http://www.gondyline.com/indemnified.php

If this was to be a shop purchase and they would set and test the bindings I would pay $200 for a 175 T50 5 star. That is the first year 5 stars and was a real game changer of a ski. It would certainly get you to where you want to go - Make sure you go view some demos on line of modern skiing.....you'll need to adapt your movement patterns to shaped sidecut....not difficult just different from what you are used to. The difference is clear and any good modern demonstration skiing on groomed terrain will show it.  I've linked a few videos in my beginner tips thread. CSIA, Italian demo team, Josh Foster are a few good sources of visual learning. The material avail for free now on the www is absolutely mind blowing!

Enjoy your quest and welcome to epicski. 

(70 is the ski width under the boot, most skis are marked with the tip tail and waist dims - all of my examples are)
mentioned videos from the Italian ski team. Tried to reply to that post...sorry
post #28 of 33
Hi Paul, sorry I'm late to the party. I'm 6'6", 225 lb for reference and have 15AA feet. My first purchase was 31.5 100 flex boots as a low intermediate, but I've upgraded to 30.5 130 to start this season. Still breaking in, but love them so far. I have a low volume foot, so I made sure I got a snug fit in the ankle, instep and width. Take time to get this right for your foot and don't waste money on the wrong boots. Like many, I made mistakes until I stumbled upon this forum. I can't speak to true carving skis except I'd like to find some cheap ones to try myself! I haven't skied the E98, but owned the E83 in 184 length for eastern all-mountain skiing and have enjoyed the E88 at demos. Seems like the right ski for groomer western skiing at your size if not for learning to carve. Just go to ebay and/or google and search on Volkl, Rossignol, Dynastar, Fischer, etc. race skis and start drooling. You'll find plenty of true FIS race skis, cheaters, and high-end carving skis, some new or lightly used demos. If you feel heavy or sluggish, my guess is you need some lessons to clean up your technique, I know I do. You are probably killing off your speed with skidded turns. Have someone video you, its an eye opener.
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cherry View Post

I was trying to find the above
mentioned videos from the Italian ski team. Tried to reply to that post...sorry

Paul I have multiple links in various of my posts in my beginner tips thread in the beginner forum. Can't link to them right now I'm only on my mobile and working. You can private message me if you like if you have a problem finding. much material on the WWW absolutely free. YouTube is your friend too!

If you're a visual learner and can copy the movements of others you might be able to save yourself a few thousand dollars on ski lessons!
post #30 of 33
Le sigh.
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