Originally Posted by utahsaint
This does not mean I am horrid skier...I would bet once my line is right my times start dropping instead of my measly 16 handicap.
The apex on a motorcycle is the point at which you are closest to the line. Its the point where there is no gas no brake and you are starting to gas right after it. It's exactly where the gate would be and what I stated several times.
The general public is on here and if you cannot define definitions this forum is useless. It's obvious to me that people are so caught up in terminology that you cannot talk to the anyone.
FWIW, I have never met either Scots Skier or markojp, although I've had plenty of online back and forth with them for years. IME, whether I'm agreeing or disagreeing, they are calmer and more reasoned with their posts than most here, myself included . They are remarkably easy to talk to, seems like, for everyone except you. More to the point, they spend a lot of discretionary time giving well-informed opinions about gear, prep, technique, even informal motion analysis, for free. That's a benefit of Epic; we're not just a bunch of couch potatoes with diarrhea of the fingers, many of us know real world stuff and share. There's a remarkable collective intelligence here; besides lots of folks in the ski industry, we include engineers, attorneys, athletes in other sports, doctors, scientists, successful businesspeople, and yep, even some pros check in once in a while. OK? so it's been obvious for about a page and a half that you were using "apex" in a nonconventional way for skiing, and no one was flipping about it. You got nice diagrams, repeatedly, great technique advice, etc.
So you countered with your own diagram. I get that too; you were feeling defensive, it's never easy to be called wrong by a group, and you wanted to show you had a reason for your definition. Great. We get it. I owned and rode bikes for 30 years, as I recall some here including Scots actually for real raced. If I can note a fundamental conceptual difference, in motorcycle or car racing, the apex is defined by the road curvature, as the innermost line the racer can take within the curve of the road. As this Wiki entry notes, it is not necessarily the center of the road curve, and may not even be a curve, period:
"Within the context of motorcycling, the apex refers to the point where the motorcycle is closest to the inside of the corner and not necessarily the center of the corner."
In skiing, there is no road, just better or worse lines. And we use apex as a mathematician or engineer does, to mean the center of the curve. (Which as also the derivation of the standard dictionary definition, "highest point." So a skiing apex is not anywhere near the gate, unless we are badly late on our turn (been there, done that). We knew that. If we kept re-explaining it, 'twas not because of rudeness or pedantry but because you kept defending a bad analogy with another sport. You didn't seem to be listening, just returning to the motorcycle thing.
OK, all that said, not sure your times or handicap will drop dramatically. My sons both race, for instance, and stronger kids love to run straight at gates, bash 'em, and turn frantically. When you're light, and not going super fast, you can actually post decent times that way. Ditto for mediocre Masters racers like me. But that approach hits a wall. Your times flatten out. So the coaches cure 'em of that as early as possible. By contrast, learning a good line, initiating really early, will slow you down for a good while. No "Eureka" moment on the podium. But over time, with lotsa reps (all it takes is one late turn to mess up the next 5 below you), you'll start getting better and better, and other issues will show up you can tinker with. One of the joys of racing (or more generally, skiing) is how infuriating it is.
Good luck, really.