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Bad tune or are my skis done?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
So my daily driver of the last 3 years, is a 185 nordica hell and back. Great ski that did it all but added some fatter skis for pow day. Last year, I noticed a lack of grip and attributed it to the lack of new snow, so started trying the 88s and picked up a pair of monster 88s this year. Love them.

But still like to take out the hell and backs on occasion sorta as a rock ski but hate the lack of grip on icy groomers that my monsters would grip and rip. Brought them to the shop so that my rock skis don't get me killed on groomers. They said they'd be like new when asked if it was worth tuning them. Came back looking ok but far from new. Still not grippy on the firm groomers. They used to be great on groomers.

So, do you think I got a bad tune, or are mys skis done?
post #2 of 15
Roughly how many days? I've never thought much of the hardpack performance of those skis, more like you can survive on it, but not enjoy it, compared to the right skis for the job. What's the side bevel set to?

I'm suspecting that now that you know what a more appropriate ski feels like you're getting fussier. But if you're over 100-120 days, then basically they've started to lose their youthful vigor.
post #3 of 15

While I don't have anything to add to help answer your question (sorry), it's things like this which drove me to do my own tuning. It's way cheaper than using shops, less travel effort, and you know you'll get consistent results (if you screw up, you can just redo it).

 

When I'd get a shop tune and skied badly, I often couldn't figure out if the tune was bad, or if I was bad. (In retrospect, occasionally both were probably true!) And nowdays, I don't have to witness anyone scrunch their nose up when I ask for a 4 degree edge angle. (I only have to hear grief about it every time I discuss it with other instructors.)

post #4 of 15

Take the skis back and have them inspected and fixed.

 

Having a bad tune back about 1999, is the reason I do my own tuning. Never had a bad tune again.

post #5 of 15

I'm guessing you're just not putting them up to as high and edge angle as you would need; the wider ski might discourage you from that plus you need to compensate more for more give in the ski.  Going to 88 from 98 mm in otherwise similar skis makes that noticeable. 

post #6 of 15
Sounds like they are base high. Put a true bar on them and check. Best remedy is a good stone grind. Cheers
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I'm guessing you're just not putting them up to as high and edge angle as you would need; the wider ski might discourage you from that plus you need to compensate more for more give in the ski.  Going to 88 from 98 mm in otherwise similar skis makes that noticeable. 

I'm used to the skis and know how to get the edge angle up as I've skied it and wider skis for the last few years.

It's either tune, doesn't look or feel very sharp, or I'm spoiled by skiing my narrower skis recently with low snow.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Btw, 80-100 days on them.
post #9 of 15
Now you know why a lot of us do our own tuning. Makes answering that question easier.
post #10 of 15

Every pair of skis I've owned in the past ten years has ended with this phenomenon...usually after several 40ish day seasons.  I've had multiple shops work on them, check the base for flatness, etc.  The day after a tune they'll perform a little better on the hardscrape and then quickly revert to form.  My Hellens are in this state now...they still rule in the crud but ironically my new fatter Cochises have become a more reliable ice scraper.

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by smileguy1 View Post

Btw, 80-100 days on them.

 

They are probably done as in worn out, with less torsional rigidity and softer flex then when new. Most skis don't last past 100 days and the decline basically starts at day one.

post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by smileguy1 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I'm guessing you're just not putting them up to as high and edge angle as you would need; the wider ski might discourage you from that plus you need to compensate more for more give in the ski.  Going to 88 from 98 mm in otherwise similar skis makes that noticeable. 

I'm used to the skis and know how to get the edge angle up as I've skied it and wider skis for the last few years.

It's either tune, doesn't look or feel very sharp, or I'm spoiled by skiing my narrower skis recently with low snow.


Well if you feel they are not holding the edge despite you compensating for the wider width and dialing up more edge angle at the bindings, then either they are worn out OR they have been detuned for you.  Souldn't be that hard for you to tell if they are sharp.  If they are sharp they should hold at a high enough edge angle. 

 

Time for new skis.

post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

While I don't have anything to add to help answer your question (sorry), it's things like this which drove me to do my own tuning. It's way cheaper than using shops, less travel effort, and you know you'll get consistent results (if you screw up, you can just redo it).

 

When I'd get a shop tune and skied badly, I often couldn't figure out if the tune was bad, or if I was bad. (In retrospect, occasionally both were probably true!) And nowdays, I don't have to witness anyone scrunch their nose up when I ask for a 4 degree edge angle. (I only have to hear grief about it every time I discuss it with other instructors.)

Thumbs Up:ROTF

post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

While I don't have anything to add to help answer your question (sorry), it's things like this which drove me to do my own tuning. It's way cheaper than using shops, less travel effort, and you know you'll get consistent results (if you screw up, you can just redo it).

 

When I'd get a shop tune and skied badly, I often couldn't figure out if the tune was bad, or if I was bad. (In retrospect, occasionally both were probably true!) And nowdays, I don't have to witness anyone scrunch their nose up when I ask for a 4 degree edge angle. (I only have to hear grief about it every time I discuss it with other instructors.)

 

While a 4 degree side edge angle is probably less than ideal for teaching, according to a friend who tunes skis for Canada's national skier cross team, most of the competitors race with a 3 or 4 degree side edge angle. Most shops in my area, if you just tell them to sharpen the skis and don't given specific instructions, will give you a 1 degree base edge and 1 degree side edge.

 

The tuning shop that is associated with the demo centre where I work has a Wintersteiger ceramic disc automatic edge sharpener and it does a terrific job. Because it grabs the ski and automatically makes several passes (once the machine is set up, human hands do not touch the ski), based on what is programmed into the machine, it is pretty consistent and this is ideal for a high volume shop. So the ski tech--shop rat doesn't need physical skills or years of tuning experience, he or she just needs to know how to program the machine.

post #15 of 15
Yeah. But they still need to remove the hanging but by hand and and that machine I would assume creates a nasty one. I will say a ceramic dis side edge is great. Very very grippy!
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