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# Pushing your limits and scaring yourself - Page 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste

Shane was a very calculated individual and I would be willing to bet that my 70 mph trip to work this morning was riskier by the numbers than skiing off of a cliff with a parachute on. Especially when you consider the wide range of variables involved with driving on a road with a quarter of a million people all blasting down the road in 2 tons of metal.

Really? So if you take all the people driving at 70mph and calculate how many of those people died you would get a pretty small percentage. Now take all the people who have jumped off a 1400 foot cliff with skis on, a parachute, and a wing suit and calculate how many people died. I would be willing to bet that percentage to be higher.

One guy wears a helmet jumping off a cliff and is going faster than 70. The others have airbags,brakes and a car around them.
As you get older you think twice about consequences of mislaid plans. I'll pass on that to ski another day. However I have had a few skiers call me crazy for carving off the groom. Go figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen

Really? So if you take all the people driving at 70mph and calculate how many of those people died you would get a pretty small percentage. Now take all the people who have jumped off a 1400 foot cliff with skis on, a parachute, and a wing suit and calculate how many people died. I would be willing to bet that percentage to be higher.

Risk and outcome are different data sets. My thoughts are directed at the risk. If you weigh all of the variables for each activity, you would probably find that there is more risk involved with driving for the simple fact that your variables overlap with everyone else's variables that you are on the road with. The variables for a single individual skiing off of a cliff in the middle of nowhere with a parachute on are quite limited and can be better managed. The outcome data aren't generated until after the "oops" moment in either situation.

Now, after the oops moment, are your chances of survival higher if you crash a car at 70mph as opposed to grounding out from a 1400 foot cliff? Absolutely.

"Pushing your limits and scaring yourself" is the title of the thread. It seems to be directed more toward real and perceived risk to me, but maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen

Valid point. I wasn't aware the Stevens tragedy was during high avalanche danger so your analogy makes more sense.

I figured I would get responses like yours to my equipment failure take. You cant tell me that our brakes in our car or more likely to suddenly fail than some old Tyrolia bindings hooked to a homemade release contraption.

Some of the cars my friends drove in college might be less reliable then those homemade releases... but in all seriousness no I don't think car brakes are just as likely to fail just making  the point that lots of things we use in every day life have single points of failure. To go with a more realistic example what about a pre release on a binding in no fall terrain? Shane had done dozens if not more ski base jumps before the failure. You add in the other guys that were doing it and your talking less then a 1% failure rate.

Quote:
Are there still astronauts?

I know your joking but they fly on the Soyuz now which is even more dangerous

Well in the last few weeks at Wolf, I've scared myself in a few novel ways.

A small slab release.

Cliffing myself out yesterday. I dropped into a chute that sloughed down to rock, so the best option was then to take ~10 foot booter. I'm not really a fan of airing it out (certainly not while skiing alone) and it wasn't exactly graceful.

My intent was just to get the skis on the snow and then hip check it, but somehow I threw my hip at the snow and missed.

Anyways, as I didn't intend to do any of these things, I didn't feel terribly great about pushing the limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210

The line that scared me was off  Knife Ridge at Wolf Creek.

That's a pretty ballsy huck and definitely a no screwing around line. Even without the mandatory air, that is next-level steeps in there.

As is clear, you acquitted yourself slightly better than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism

That's a pretty ballsy huck and definitely a no screwing around line. Even without the mandatory air, that is next-level steeps in there.

As is clear, you acquitted yourself slightly better than me.

Well I had watched the junior freestyle team from Winter Park launch that cliff a couple days earlier. Couldn't let a bunch of 14 year oldso show me up. They still did though...

That slab release was scary. Going back to the topic there are some days that just feel off and as my mom has told me sometimes it's a harder decision to step away when you should then to push through anyways.

I had an instructor tell me once, "if you're not falling you're not learning."  There's a lot of truth in that.

At some point in your skiing, you should stop falling and keep learning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism

That's a pretty ballsy huck and definitely a no screwing around line. Even without the mandatory air, that is next-level steeps in there.

As is clear, you acquitted yourself slightly better than me.

Well I had watched the junior freestyle team from Winter Park launch that cliff a couple days earlier. Couldn't let a bunch of 14 year oldso show me up. They still did though...

That slab release was scary. Going back to the topic there are some days that just feel off and as my mom has told me sometimes it's a harder decision to step away when you should then to push through anyways.

Been thinking about posting in the thread for a while.  Your post reminded me about a similar situation in reverse.   While canoeing with my daughter along a creek with cliffs along the shores,  we came upon some teenagers who had set up a swing rope.  We asked if we could join in.  While swinging, we heard the teens talking and one was talking about how last year he had jumped off the top cliff (at a level above the swing rope attachment), and was probably going to do it again this summer.   I checked the landing zone, making a note of what area was almost deep enough (landing produced penetration into the muck at the bottom) and promptly climbed to the top and jumped in.   The kids had to do it then, so as not to be shown up by a grey haired old man.  LOL.

I used to get a good adrenaline high from skiing as fast as I could in as tight spaces as I could.   Steep lines down a narrow gully with a tree stuck in the middle you had to avoid by going around and getting back on track in the centre before hitting a bunch more trees, threading the needle at the bottom of a chute, skiing 50 mph and leaving bits of your jacket on an old dead  tree trunk 'cause it was a tight squeeze, that sort of thing.

Haven't done that for a while, mostly due to lack of opportunity to ski fast.  I think absence may (and I only say may) have cured me of the addiction.

Looking back on skiing for the last few decades, I have had the occasional shot of adrenaline when carving turns on narrow trails at speed due to rapidly approaching trees dead ahead on the side of the trail, but I've not pushed that too far.  I get injured plenty just skiing normally without trying to make it more dangerous.

After a few decades, when you fall you what you learn is you shouldn't have done that!

If in doubt attack, if it kills you it was the wrong decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier

If in doubt attack, if it kills you it was the wrong decision.

At least you can only die once?

Only, depends if you know a good witch doctor.

I believe this is a key part of the sport and progression. I push myself when I ski within reason, I respect my abilities. I will see interesting lines that look difficult in the trees, many times I will take my time to determine whether it is skiable. When I am feeling confident I will ski the line slowly assessing conditions etc, hidden obstacles, anything that can be a hazard. After my initial run I will open up the speed and go through much more confidently but still being cautious. If you don't have fear during any of these moments I don''t believe we would have the drive to stop us from skiing through safely without crashing into the trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbly

I had an instructor tell me once, "if you're not falling you're not learning."  There's a lot of truth in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider

At some point in your skiing, you should stop falling and keep learning.

You learn a lot from falling, it shows you limits. Park skiers/big mtn skiers fall all the time, they are pushing the limits of what has been thought possible on skis. If you're not falling you're not really pushing yourself, respectfully for expert skiers skiing in no fall zones you obviously wouldn't want to push the limits that far at least not in a zone like that. People mentioning McConkey regardless of the fact that he died, he left a huge impression on the sport/industry. To this day people are still talking about him, they certainly aren't mentioning the skiers that played it safe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn W Satch

How old are you, Lonewolf?  I'm in my mid-40's and from my perspective I'm done really pushing myself.  I even catch myself thinking about the potential consequences of a crash while hauling azz on the groomers.  Those chances of a groomer crash are minimal but it puts in perspective where my mindset is relative to risk these days.  I find I'm enjoying the challenges of really horrid conditions more so than terrain which could have consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf

I'm 59, but I didn't get serious about skiing better until 10 years ago.
Since I have a reconstructed ACL, and it took remarkably little to destroy the original equipment, I'm worried about how a cliff landing would go, even if I managed somehow to do it correctly. But other than that, I'm definitely still pushing.

One psychological factor that occurs to me is that none of my injuries were related to pushing limits. I broke my tailbone my 3rd day on a snowboard, on a green run. (I'm a skier.) My ACL rupture was caused by a caught tail while turning at very low speed.

Oh, and I'm guessing my idea of "steep and narrow" is probably a lot tamer than yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox

At 47 "pushing my limits" is more tiring than scary.  It usually means one more turn in the bumps before taking a breather.

Yes, age plays its part and also takes its toll. Hence why we don't see pro football and hockey players in the 40's and 50's.

I am 51 and I know I will not do what I once did. Now, some of this is due to the amount of skiing I do now vs when I was younger. But most is a different mindset. The need is just not there as it once was. The body is just not able to take the abuse it once did. Fall down at 19 and you shake it off and bounce up like nobody's business. Fall at 50 and it hurts much much more and you need a nice hot soothing chicken soup afterwards...lol

Now, when I take my more demanding runs (which I still like to do) I first need to be feeling the "mojo" and feel I am skiing very well. And then also not feel tired. And when I do it its less often and often paired with stopping along the way. But that's just fine and dandy with me and still proud I can do it. I just don't need to rip down a difficult black top to bottom like I once did especially with bumps. The stamina is not the same anymore, and the risk is greater because the body is older, and the mind knows all this. Taking chances is just not at the same intensity level it once was.

I have no issue just spending more and more time cruising nicely with less amounts of difficult terrain mixed in. Its still all one of my most enjoyable recreations there is. I honestly feel bad for people who never even tried skiing or tried than quit having never advanced enough to enjoy it or given it the chance. This is one the best sport recreations there ever was or ever will be imo. And whats even better is when you do it as a family. Its a whole different world than anything else imo. There is just something surreal and mesmerizing about being on/in beautiful mountains on a good ski day with the family. I mean the whole thing from the scenic drives up, to resting by a fireplace afterwards, and of course all the skiing and nature in between.

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