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How many tunes do you get out of your stones? - Page 3

post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
 

Also putting an old file into a vinegar for a day revives it quite good.

From what I've heard (from SkiVisions videos), this works well, but you have to be careful to take the file out of the vinegar with a pair of pliers, not with your fingers touching the file until after you've washed off the vinegar and the reactant on the file surface with water.  Cleaning grade vinegar (I think 3%, double normal) is what the SkiVisions founder, Mark Sewell, recommends, to make files sharp again. The vinegar actually etches the metal, I understand.  

Files seem to last a long time for me, so I haven't had to try this yet.  

 

Correction:  Haven't used this stuff for a while and had an old guy lapse: it's 10% for the cleaning/weeding/etching vinegar,  ~5% for the cooking and salad vinegar.  


Edited by ski otter - 1/12/16 at 12:42pm
post #62 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

From what I've heard (from SkiVisions videos), this works well, but you have to be careful to take the file out of the vinegar with a pair of pliers, not with your fingers touching the file until after you've washed off the vinegar and the reactant on the file surface with water.  Cleaning grade vinegar (I think 3%, double normal) is what the SkiVisions founder, Mark Sewell, recommends, to make files sharp again. The vinegar actually etches the metal, I understand.  

Files seem to last a long time for me, so I haven't had to try this yet.  

 

Could you turn regular vinegar into cleaning vinegar by boiling it down to 50% volume? I don't have cleaning vinegar but I can do regular.

post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

Could you turn regular vinegar into cleaning vinegar by boiling it down to 50% volume? I don't have cleaning vinegar but I can do regular.

Myself, not sure.   The method occurs near the end of this YouTube stone & file maintenance video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DikQ0kWNk

 

I'm not sure about the 3% ( it may be higher);, just that Mark says his cleaning vinegar has twice the acidity of regular vinegar.  

 

 

I think Mark would have mentioned boiling if it were an option.  I know cleaning vinegar is fairly easy to find, and cheapest product around. But 5% or so cooking white vinegar might work too.  Sorry for the confusion.    

 

Correction:  Again, as corrected above, it's ~5% cooking/salad vinegar, 10% cleaning vinegar.  The stuff's cheap.  


Edited by ski otter - 1/12/16 at 12:45pm
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

So y'all are talking diamond stones.

Who uses ceramic, silicon carbide, or aluminum oxide stones?


Was wondering about the silicon carbide cutting vs aluminum oxide polishing stones from Svst. Ceramics are generally pretty expensive.


Cutting:




Polishing:



http://www.race-werks.com/svst-world-cup-stone-kit-6-replacement-cutting-stones/
The green cutting stones in 400 and 600 work ok but the 320 and 220 wear grooves in them very fast and IMO they aren't very well suited for using on skis.  The white Alum. Ox. stones are considerably harder but the 320 and especially the 220, will still wear grooves in them.  The Alum. Ox. stones I've used a lot and they work well for a variety of uses.  SVST also has their T2 stones that are very hard and IMO, with regard to using actual stones, are the best available.  I much prefer stones to diamond files but the thing about using stones is they require more maintenance because they get plugged up with debris much easier and they are harder to keep clean than a diamond file.  Stones don't clear the debris as naturally and easily as a diamond file does and once the surface is filled up with debris on a stone, it looses its effectiveness and the longer you go before cleaning a stone, the harder it is to get it clean.

All of the different stones, files, and diamond files have their place and some certainly work better at certain things than do others.  

Like anything else, using the right tool for the job is what really matters.  Even though I prefer stones to diamond files, for universal use by the masses, diamond files are a better choice than are stones and Ceramic disk grinders such as the Snow Glide, this is certain to raise Jacques heart rate biggrin.gif , is best of all.  Unfortunately, they just aren't the most practical, in terms of cost.
So if you're using stones in between filings instead of diamond fo you do 320grit and 400?
You use citrus to clean them or comet or what?

As to "sharpening" a file with vinegar, I guess it's eating the valleys. It doesn't actually sharpen the peaks. So I don't know if it's really sharpening. People used to say to leave the file out to rust. Same idea. As I recall, somehow the peaks, teeth, are harder than the valleys so the valleys rust more.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


So if you're using stones in between filings instead of diamond fo you do 320grit and 400?
You use citrus to clean them or comet or what?

As to "sharpening" a file with vinegar, I guess it's eating the valleys. It doesn't actually sharpen the peaks. So I don't know if it's really sharpening. People used to say to leave the file out to rust. Same idea. As I recall, somehow the peaks, teeth, are harder than the valleys so the valleys rust more.

The files I use are extremely sharp and they cut very clean so my post filing work is pretty minimal but usually consists of 600 green silicone carbide then both sides of a ceramic.  Race skis get a little more attention.

 

I've used a variety of different things to clean stones and ceramics with but I typically use comet and a Mr. Clean magic eraser.

post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
 

The files I use are extremely sharp and they cut very clean so my post filing work is pretty minimal but usually consists of 600 green silicone carbide then both sides of a ceramic.  Race skis get a little more attention.

 

I've used a variety of different things to clean stones and ceramics with but I typically use comet and a Mr. Clean magic eraser.

Mr Clean magic eraser... That's a good idea!

post #67 of 81

FYI

 

Mr Clean Magic Erasers are Melamine Foam which act as an ultra fine abrasive.

post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

Could you turn regular vinegar into cleaning vinegar by boiling it down to 50% volume? I don't have cleaning vinegar but I can do regular.


White Distilled Vinegar. Stronger vinegar is better. Rice vinegar is too weak.

 

Clean the file first to make sure you get any grease and debris out of the teeth. Use a brass brush and dish detergent to scrub them and get them as clean as possible. Wash thoroughly with water.

 

Dip them into vinegar, preferably vertical. Otherwise you will need to turn them periodically. Let them sit for 24 hours (badly dull, almost round teeth files need to sit longer).

 

After the files come out of the vinegar, they will be covered by black residue.  It can be cleaned off with a fine bras brush and clean running water and a bit of soap/dish detergent. I just wear rubber/latex gloves while doing it. Then they need to be dried with cloth and blowing air (I use hair blower). Some people oil or WD-40 them to prevent flash rusting, I don't bother.

 

 

 

 

post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

So y'all are talking diamond stones.
Who uses ceramic, silicon carbide, or aluminum oxide stones?

Was wondering about the silicon carbide cutting vs aluminum oxide polishing stones from Svst. Ceramics are generally pretty expensive.

Cutting:


Polishing:


http://www.race-werks.com/svst-world-cup-stone-kit-6-replacement-cutting-stones/


If one likes these type of polishing stones here is the best place to get them.  They wear fast so you need lots of them.
https://www.borideabrasives.com/PublicStore/Default.aspx

post #70 of 81
Sharpening a file with sulfuric acid:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLSkW5BwbM
post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


If one likes these type of polishing stones here is the best place to get them.  They wear fast so you need lots of them.
https://www.borideabrasives.com/PublicStore/Default.aspx

X2 They're a great source for sure and offer a much wider selection of grits in the same or different stones.  They're where SVST gets their stones from as well.

post #72 of 81

Since I get wax on files, I tend to use the wax remover as well as brass brush/soap to clean them.  

 

As to the Vinegar, after my above "old guy" lapse on vinegar concentration, I believe I got the cleaning vinegar (10%) from Amazon, below. 

 

This stuff is a cheap household cleaner (carpets, bathrooms, kitchen, etc.). 

 

 http://www.amazon.com/Four-Monks-10-Vinegar-Gallon/dp/B005I5IZ8G

 

Opps.  They are out of this stuff.   Must not be so great for general household use(?)


Edited by ski otter - 1/12/16 at 1:32pm
post #73 of 81

And a tbsp of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water works great for heartburn, too.  The uses for this stuff are endless.:D

post #74 of 81

Tablespoon of red vinegar to ward off mosquitos! I've heard it alleged.

post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Tablespoon of red vinegar to ward off mosquitos! I've heard it alleged.

Hmm, wonder how much of that stuff you've got to drink to ward off ex wives?!

post #76 of 81
Thread Starter 

So I put two files into a vinegar bath for a few hours. They both ended up incredibly rusted. Uggh. I dumped that vinegar, filled the pan with new vinegar, let them soak a bit in the new vinegar, brushed as much rust off as I could, then dried with paper towel. They're still rusty but not as bad. 

 

Any ideas?

post #77 of 81
New files?
post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

Since I get wax on files, I tend to use the wax remover as well as brass brush/soap to clean them.  

 

As to the Vinegar, after my above "old guy" lapse on vinegar concentration, I believe I got the cleaning vinegar (10%) from Amazon, below. 

 

This stuff is a cheap household cleaner (carpets, bathrooms, kitchen, etc.). 

 

 http://www.amazon.com/Four-Monks-10-Vinegar-Gallon/dp/B005I5IZ8G

 

Opps.  They are out of this stuff.   Must not be so great for general household use(?)

And why do you get wax on your files?

post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

So I put two files into a vinegar bath for a few hours. They both ended up incredibly rusted. Uggh. I dumped that vinegar, filled the pan with new vinegar, let them soak a bit in the new vinegar, brushed as much rust off as I could, then dried with paper towel. They're still rusty but not as bad. 

Any ideas?
I don't get it. The method of chemical sharpening works by oxidizing the steel- rusting it. It's not magic, it's not Alchemy, it's chemistry. :-)
Try putting them vertically in solution and longer times or stronger solution.

Otherwise, as sib suggested, magically make them fresh steel by ordering on the magic box- the computer. Then recycle the old one.
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

And why do you get wax on your files?

 

Not often.  Traces.  I think it's when I'm reconditioning/resetting an edge on an old ski and by accident or mental lapse I've not gotten all the wax off with the wax remover, but I'm not sure.  Maybe waxy hands or table.  It's so little so rarely that it's never been a problem.  But the wax remover cleaned it, whether it needed it or not.  

 

But then I've never etched a file in vinegar either.   So just to be sure, I'd use wax remover on an old dull ski file before dipping the thing into 10% vinegar for etching. I have some old, no longer used files I've meant to try vinegar on, just never have.  I keep buying better files.  :) 

post #81 of 81

P.S. I seem to recall that years ago with files for other uses I just used this thick chaulk tube to clean files.  

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