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post #91 of 106

wax remover. FWIW, I don't use it unless I need to drip in some p-Tex. The idea is to keep wax in the base. A couple years back once I used a little to clean the spring time tree sap off the bases.

 

IMO for 90% of us may be 95%, use a good all temp wax and be done with it. I'll add a little Dominator HX07 powder if its going to be really cold or a little yellow race wax if its needed for those warmer day's. 

 

Make is easy on yourself, your not a top level racer...are you ?

 

 

Lots of info on this site, read and learn then do what works for you.

 

I find it easy and quick, but I have been doing this for over 15 years. I haven't had a bad tune since doing my own skis.

 

My skis are fast, glide well and will hold an edge on the ice.

post #92 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 
Just for future knowledge, most of us don't recommend detuning a shaped ski.

 

 

We also recommend 1* base and 3* edge. All my skis and the GF's skis are 1/3, I even did my sisters new skis at 1/3 last week, she's 75y/o and enjoyed them this weekend. Oh I also did my son's future wife's skis at 1/3, she's skied twice now. She's making nice linked wedge turns going parallel in between the turns.

The tech at REI noticed that the edges were de-tuned when I took them in, and explained that was to keep the tips from "diving", etc.  I had read that somewhere, and it made sense to me, and I didn't really know any better, so I didn't really have any basis upon which to give him another preference.  I got the impression they de-tune the tips & tails of EVERY ski they tune, unless the customer tells them to do otherwise.  Maybe next tune up I'll leave them sharp, stem to stern.

It's inspiring to hear of folks older than me (I'll be 69 in a few weeks) still skiing.  I recently chatted with Tracey Gibbons, former ski racer & owner of Sturtevant's Ski Mart, Bellevue & Tacoma.  She said her mother had quit skiing, but recently she encouraged her mother to "just try" some of the new boots.  As a result, her mother is now skiing again, at 79!  I have an aunt & uncle up in Bellingham who skied into their mid-to-late 70's at Mt. Baker, on what must have been the 1st generation of shaped skis. They said they liked them.  That was inspirational, too.  Plus, I'm hanging on to the fact that by April of 2017, when I turn 70, I'll be a "super senior" and can ski Snoqualmie Summit for just $12 a day, or whatever it will be by then.  THAT's an incentive to take care of myself and keep learning!

Tracey Gibbons, of Sturtevant's.  Friendly, knowledgeable, interesting gal to chat with:

http://www.skinet.com/ski/files/imagecache/gallery_image/_images/201508/ski0915_skitester_w_gibbonstracy.jpg

post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 

wax remover. FWIW, I don't use it unless I need to drip in some p-Tex. The idea is to keep wax in the base. A couple years back once I used a little to clean the spring time tree sap off the bases.

 

IMO for 90% of us may be 95%, use a good all temp wax and be done with it. I'll add a little Dominator HX07 powder if its going to be really cold or a little yellow race wax if its needed for those warmer day's. 

 

Make is easy on yourself, your not a top level racer...are you ?

 

 

Lots of info on this site, read and learn then do what works for you.

 

I find it easy and quick, but I have been doing this for over 15 years. I haven't had a bad tune since doing my own skis.

 

My skis are fast, glide well and will hold an edge on the ice.

Not even a beginning racer, except when I don't pay attention and the Fury's feel the reins go slack.  Then, suddenly, we're racing, and passing everybody else!

That's my plan: KISS: "keep it simple, stupid", and  to learn to do enough to have fun as an advancing intermediate, and keep the gear both functioning well & prevent unnecessary deterioration from lack of maintenance, at reasonable cost over time.

I plan to bone up on tuning, too, so I can do my own tuning as well as waxing.  I have a few pair of older skis to learn with & practice on, before I will touch the Furys' edges, other than filing/stoning out the occasional burr.  As a retired machinist, I feel confident I can do that.  I'll invest in an edge tool soon, to be sure to maintain 1 degree & 3 degrees, or whatever the Furys were from the factory.

post #94 of 106

Don't worry what the factory set the edges at, go to 1/3. 

 

Don't worry about removing a nick in the edge, just knock off the high spot, the rest will tune out over time. You didn't feel the nick skiing you only knew it was there when you looked.

 

I have a number of skis that have never been stone ground, with the ski visions base tools you can flatten your bases and then clean up the edges.

 

I wish I could put into words how great I feel when I ski, knowing the edge hold and performance of my skis, is all on me. 

 

You have a great background for tuning your own skis. I never practiced on old skis. Just remember start off small, its about making the skis last, not filing all the metal off. Go slow, think about what your doing, you'll be fine.

post #95 of 106

Max Capacity, a bit off-topic, but speaking of wedge turns, I'm reading the book "Breakthrough on the New Skis', by Lito Tejada-Flores.  It's helping me improve.  I just discovered the other day he has videos that accompany the book on Youtube.  It was published about 2001, so he doesn't get into the latest skis with rocker, but his advice, and exercises, or drills, are helping, and working for me

post #96 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 

Don't worry what the factory set the edges at, go to 1/3. 

 

Don't worry about removing a nick in the edge, just knock off the high spot, the rest will tune out over time. You didn't feel the nick skiing you only knew it was there when you looked.

 

I have a number of skis that have never been stone ground, with the ski visions base tools you can flatten your bases and then clean up the edges.

 

I wish I could put into words how great I feel when I ski, knowing the edge hold and performance of my skis, is all on me. 

 

You have a great background for tuning your own skis. I never practiced on old skis. Just remember start off small, its about making the skis last, not filing all the metal off. Go slow, think about what your doing, you'll be fine.

Well... o.k. on the angles.  I'd still like to know what the factory angles were.  Just my OCD.

Yes on filing off the high spots & burrs.  I have drawers full of all manner of files, including 3 grades of little diamond files and small square stones in various grades.  And experience with nearly every metal you can name.  Just don't have the ski-specific tuning tool(s) yet.

 

I just picked up a little cork for waxing on the hill.  I intend to pick up - or may have already, I'll have to check - one of the little gummy "stones" to carry with me while skiing, too.

post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 

1)  Should I use the Swix base cleaner first, or do any other cleaning, brushing, prep work before applying the BP88?

 

Base cleaner is something to hold in reserve for special situations like 

- when you know absolutely and for a fact that you want the previous wax off and gone.   Maybe it's a warm wax that will smoke easily or maybe it's a fluoro so cleaning wax won't work very well or maybe it's one of the supersticky sort that makes gluey gel when mixed with cleaning wax.

- there is some external contamination mixed in with it like pine tar/drippings or oily residue or ground-in dirt.

Yes, certainly you can brush the bases out - less of the previous wax is better - and you can use the non abrasive fibertex-type pads too.   
When/if you do use the base cleaner, remember to let it soak in, then sponge and scrub and brush it off. 

 

If the ingredients just say "de-aromatized" hydrocarbons, chances are it's not straight kerosene but more like mineral spirits in that it will have lighter fractions.   By 'de-aromatized' they don't mean "we got rid of the odor".      They mean "we got rid of benzene and it's friends  toluene and xylene".     They probably also put in a citrus oil or derivative like limonene  (which is a fair cleaner in itself, plus it has a citrusy odor) and a surfactant to make it easier to get off the ski (yes, with water).

 

 

 


3) What about the Swix Universal Glide Wax?  The price is nice, but am I not better off with the more temperature-specific waxes like CH7, etc.?  Again, I'm suspicious about what exactly it is - basic paraffin, or something slightly better, with an additive or two?

 

 

Most universal waxes are far better than straight canning wax in warm temperature glide, in wetting out the ski, and in durability in really cold temperatures.   Basic paraffin is ...cheap.

post #98 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 

1)  Should I use the Swix base cleaner first, or do any other cleaning, brushing, prep work before applying the BP88?

 

Base cleaner is something to hold in reserve for special situations like 

- when you know absolutely and for a fact that you want the previous wax off and gone.   Maybe it's a warm wax that will smoke easily or maybe it's a fluoro so cleaning wax won't work very well or maybe it's one of the supersticky sort that makes gluey gel when mixed with cleaning wax.

- there is some external contamination mixed in with it like pine tar/drippings or oily residue or ground-in dirt.

Yes, certainly you can brush the bases out - less of the previous wax is better - and you can use the non abrasive fibertex-type pads too.   
When/if you do use the base cleaner, remember to let it soak in, then sponge and scrub and brush it off. 

 

If the ingredients just say "de-aromatized" hydrocarbons, chances are it's not straight kerosene but more like mineral spirits in that it will have lighter fractions.   By 'de-aromatized' they don't mean "we got rid of the odor".      They mean "we got rid of benzene and it's friends  toluene and xylene".     They probably also put in a citrus oil or derivative like limonene  (which is a fair cleaner in itself, plus it has a citrusy odor) and a surfactant to make it easier to get off the ski (yes, with water).

 

 

 


3) What about the Swix Universal Glide Wax?  The price is nice, but am I not better off with the more temperature-specific waxes like CH7, etc.?  Again, I'm suspicious about what exactly it is - basic paraffin, or something slightly better, with an additive or two?

 

 

Most universal waxes are far better than straight canning wax in warm temperature glide, in wetting out the ski, and in durability in really cold temperatures.   Basic paraffin is ...cheap.

O.K., that sounds reasonable - mineral spirits.  Ya, I see the Swix has a lemon infused cleaner.

Is there a specific wax JUST for cleaning, or is it just any basic softer wax you have on hand?

While on the subject of waxing, are special precautions needed with certain waxes, like the fluorides?  I see the bigger ski shops are using masks & ventilation.

post #99 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 


While on the subject of waxing, are special precautions needed with certain waxes, like the fluorides?  I see the bigger ski shops are using masks & ventilation.

 

Any softer wax you have on hand will do, the more it wets out the ski the better.

Burning fluoros is bad - you need a chemical cartridge respirator if there's a chance of that.    Everything else is mostly mechanical protection from things like rotobrush debris, analogous to router dust.   

By 'mostly' I mean "yes, there are vapors even if something isn't boiling, and mechanical filtration allows some of the vapors to condense on the filter before reaching your lungs".

 

post #100 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 


While on the subject of waxing, are special precautions needed with certain waxes, like the fluorides?  I see the bigger ski shops are using masks & ventilation.

 

Any softer wax you have on hand will do, the more it wets out the ski the better.

Burning fluoros is bad - you need a chemical cartridge respirator if there's a chance of that.    Everything else is mostly mechanical protection from things like rotobrush debris, analogous to router dust.   

By 'mostly' I mean "yes, there are vapors even if something isn't boiling, and mechanical filtration allows some of the vapors to condense on the filter before reaching your lungs".

 

I have a cartridge respirator, but don't feel the need to get into fluoros... yet.  ;-)  I'm going fast enough today for my present skill set, thank you. ;-)

CH10 soft enough for a "cleaner" wax?  That's the softest I have on hand.  Or should I spring for something even softer?

post #101 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 


CH10 soft enough for a "cleaner" wax?  That's the softest I have on hand.  Or should I spring for something even softer?

 

That's perfectly fine.

post #102 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 

Thanks, Jacques.  I still want to talk to that tech at REI again, first, to find out exactly what he did or didn't do, so I'll have a clue about where to start.  If he simply gave them a quick spray or hot wax without a base prep, I'll start at square one.  I might as well pick up some Swix Glide Wax Cleaner, since I now have 3 or 4 of their waxes.  And I'll keep an eye out for the Dominator product.

I'd STILL like to know what the Swix base cleaner is - kerosene & perfume, or ???  I try to stay away from scents.  In laundry dryer sheets, it's said to be carcinogenic.  What kind of foo foo scent is Swix using to mask their petroleum-based cleaner?  Chanel No. 5?  Old Spice?  Pine?  ;-)


IDK.  The odor from the Glide Wax Cleaner is very minimal.  Nothing like a wax remover. 

 

All I know is I have been using it instead of hot scraping for a long time now and am very pleased with the results. 

 

Glide Wax Cleaner, 0.5L

post #103 of 106

Hmm... maybe fels naptha or something.  But Swix Glide Wax Cleaner - that's mainly for fluoro waxes, isn't it?  I'll be using just Swix hydrocarbon waxes to start, at least.  I read on another thread, here: http://www.epicski.com/t/98359/what-do-you-use-for-base-cleaner - that Swix Base Cleaner is basically 60 - 100% naptha.  That and Glide Wax Cleaner both require a respirator.

The REI tech MAY have given me a fluoro wax.  That's one of the reasons I want to chat with him again, to get clarification about exactly what he DID use.


Seems the best base prep, even for using the hydrocarbon waxes, is the Dominator Base Renew G (graphite).  Either that or Dominator Tom is a good salesman.  Two hot scrapes with it to remove old wax & impurities in the base, and then start applying the finish wax? 

post #104 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepkeel View Post
 

Well... o.k. on the angles.  I'd still like to know what the factory angles were.  Just my OCD.

Yes on filing off the high spots & burrs.  I have drawers full of all manner of files, including 3 grades of little diamond files and small square stones in various grades.  And experience with nearly every metal you can name.  Just don't have the ski-specific tuning tool(s) yet.

 

I just picked up a little cork for waxing on the hill.  I intend to pick up - or may have already, I'll have to check - one of the little gummy "stones" to carry with me while skiing, too.

To help your OCD, I think most Salomon's come at 1/1 from the factory. Lots of skis come at 1/2.

 

We recommend 1/3. I've been on 1/3 for overt 10 years now.

 

A friend's daughter who was training at Burke Mt Academy told me to use 1/3.

post #105 of 106
Edge angles are kind of like tire types or brands - whatever you want.
They are NOT like tire sizes.

Stop with this "factory" edge angle nonsense.
Any side angle less than 2 deg for a an average adult is just dumb.
There's also no reason to be all concerned what wax you got at REI. You've worn it off. It most definitely did not have fluoros in it unless you paid for it. They're expensive. So any fluoros would be small and not worth worrying over cleaning out.
post #106 of 106

Just found this:

 

http://www.tognar.com/blog/edge-beveling/

And this:

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/94206/ski-edge-bevels

Both of which confirm what you are advising.  Thanks!

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