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Ski Detuning - Page 4

post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post
 

...and the guy who picks up balls at the local driving range has a surefire secret to help touring pros.

 

Anyhow, does anyone have an updated suggested manufacturer base/side bevel sheet? I always find that useful when tuning skis for neighbors. I've been doing a 1/3 on my skis for two years now thanks to someone's suggestion (Atomicman?), but prefer to do the manufacturer's suggested angles for others. I use at home the SVST side edge beveler with the adapter plates, so I can do.the 1, 2 and 3 degrees side edge. I don't think I ever used the 1 degree (if anyone wants it).


1 & 3 everything and call it a day!

post #92 of 107
+1 on Jacques suggestion!
post #93 of 107
Thread Starter 

I think, I read somewhere that Blizzard factory tune is 1 and 3

post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


1 & 3 everything and call it a day!

I wish my local shop agreed with this.

One and three are magic numbers and it is difficult to get the shop recalibrate for a kooky angle.

post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post
 

I wish my local shop agreed with this.

One and three are magic numbers and it is difficult to get the shop recalibrate for a kooky angle.


Do it yourself, save money, and get it done right. There are lots of videos on doing this. Some good ones come from SVST (pushing their stuff) and the Willie Wiltz race set-up and tune videos sponsored by TOKO. You simply need to buy some file guides, a file, a Sharpie, and some diamond stones. Something to scrape the sidewalls wouldn't hurt.  If you aren't racing, forget about the 6 stone progression stuff (it is unnecessary), since a #400 stone is probably the finest you will need.

post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post


Do it yourself, save money, and get it done right. There are lots of videos on doing this. Some good ones come from SVST (pushing their stuff) and the Willie Wiltz race set-up and tune videos sponsored by TOKO. You simply need to buy some file guides, a file, a Sharpie, and some diamond stones. Something to scrape the sidewalls wouldn't hurt.  If you aren't racing, forget about the 6 stone progression stuff (it is unnecessary), since a #400 stone is probably the finest you will need.
Thanks,
Good advice, I get a pro for taking new skis from square to the 1 & 3, a full tune with a grind and sweet texture pattern is $65 at the Boot doctor, and Tony is the most anal manager running the show his staff tells me this. For $65 it better be. Then it's another 50 bucks for a hotbox. Every other shop refuses to go 1 & 3 or says they will then send them back at 1 & 1 for $50.

Maintaining the edges with my own stones and guides is easy. The extra cash for a sidewall plane is a wise move.
post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

I think, I read somewhere that Blizzard factory tune is 1 and 3

Yep!

post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post
 

I wish my local shop agreed with this.

One and three are magic numbers and it is difficult to get the shop recalibrate for a kooky angle.

Nothing kooky or even extreme about a 1/3! 

post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Nothing kooky or even extreme about a 1/3! 
It is if you ask the retro goons at my local shops. It took years before they would order skis other than full camber.
post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Nothing kooky or even extreme about a 1/3! 
It is if you ask the retro goons at my local shops. It took years before they would order skis other than full camber.

Just get your skis ground flat then do the bevels yourself.
Here:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xuIRLhlHECA
(There's other techniques too.)
Or send them to Michigan for cold filtered grinding and unicorn dusting.

You can always try a flat, 0 deg base bevel. (Some people like almost no base bevel.) Likely it will feel too edgy. The ski will engage with almost no tipping.

Then one solution to the edginess is to butcher the skis and detune the tips and tails. Make em good and round. That'll make them edgy under foot yet easier to pivot. The tails are likely never to follow the tips in a turn because neither know where to go and the pilot was confused at the start or by the reaction of the ski.

Don't mention this when selling the ski because anyone who knows will consider the ski worthless. Which it is for hard snow. Highly rounded tips and tails can not be recovered. The ski has a future on rails if not too much side cut.
post #101 of 107
Uhm...his unicorn dust ran out a few years back but he is still looking for more though! As you know they're hard to find!
post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbtbakkes View Post

Uhm...his unicorn dust ran out a few years back but he is still looking for more though! As you know they're hard to find!


In all seriousness there may be something to this "cold" tuning.  However I don't believe a ski needs to be perfect flat, and sometimes it's better if it's not.

 

All this needs to be perfect flat is BS.  Learn to get the ski up on edge. 

 

I don't like a ski too quick to engage.  When I want it to I am quick as it gets.  It's not always the ski, sometimes it's the skier!

post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Nothing kooky or even extreme about a 1/3! 
It is if you ask the retro goons at my local shops. It took years before they would order skis other than full camber.
For some reason it seems to be traditional to put 1/2 or even 1/1 on skis intended for soft snow. And then people wonder why they have trouble holding an edge when they find hard snow on the way back to the lift. I'm in the 1/3 on everything camp.
post #104 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

For some reason it seems to be traditional to put 1/2 or even 1/1 on skis intended for soft snow. And then people wonder why they have trouble holding an edge when they find hard snow on the way back to the lift. I'm in the 1/3 on everything camp.
Apparently the customer is always wrong. I've been lectured to about these angles, and how the ski manufacturer designates them for a reason bla bla bla and that I'm a kook for ordering otherwise.

But then 10 years ago asking for skis with reverse camber and sidecut got me the same response.
post #105 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

For some reason it seems to be traditional to put 1/2 or even 1/1 on skis intended for soft snow. And then people wonder why they have trouble holding an edge when they find hard snow on the way back to the lift. I'm in the 1/3 on everything camp.
Apparently the customer is always wrong. I've been lectured to about these angles, and how the ski manufacturer designates them for a reason bla bla bla and that I'm a kook for ordering otherwise.

But then 10 years ago asking for skis with reverse camber and sidecut got me the same response.


I was a bit skeptical about those reverse reverse skis, but I have seen folks rock them hard on groom and they love them in the Powder!  When you get them on edge....hey they are already bent!

post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


In all seriousness there may be something to this "cold" tuning.  However I don't believe a ski needs to be perfect flat, and sometimes it's better if it's not.

All this needs to be perfect flat is BS.  Learn to get the ski up on edge. 

I don't like a ski too quick to engage.  When I want it to I am quick as it gets.  It's not always the ski, sometimes it's the skier!
Better a quick skier with quick skis than a quick skier with slow skis.
post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbtbakkes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


In all seriousness there may be something to this "cold" tuning.  However I don't believe a ski needs to be perfect flat, and sometimes it's better if it's not.

All this needs to be perfect flat is BS.  Learn to get the ski up on edge. 

I don't like a ski too quick to engage.  When I want it to I am quick as it gets.  It's not always the ski, sometimes it's the skier!
Better a quick skier with quick skis than a quick skier with slow skis.
Well that's pretty meaningless.

Base bevel is about reaction time of the ski. Low base bevels like 0.5 or less react very quickly. Some of this is personal preference. In general though you would not want that for skiing trees with hard snow around. Or skiing the half pipe. You want some lee way before the ski bites. But some people are fine with a very quicly reacting ski. You would not want that for lower level skiers though.

What usually happens to low base bevels is they wear out and become greater. Particularly with recreational skiers often hockey stopping on ice or skidding sideways. So the alleged 0 degree base bevel is not that
anymore after awhile. To maintain a zero your going to have to grind it a few times a season if you ski a lot on hard snow.

As to the non flat base, it doesn't have to be perfectly flat but some measure in from the edge. Concave bases suck for sliding sideways on dense packed manmade or hard snow. This effects release of the ski. Arc to arc turns are not possible in many situations.

In soft snow things are very different.
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