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All-Mountain Ski That's Great In Moguls [southwest Colorado]

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.  I looked at all the relevant threads I could find, but didn't come across an answer.

 

Height: 5'11"
Weight: 165lbs
Ability: Expert (If we're being honest with each other, "Advanced")
Location (skiing): Southwestern Colorado (exclusively)
Days on the Snow: 6-10/year

 

I spend 75% of my time on moguls, but 15% of the time I end up skiing through some crud and tracked out powder because the folks I ski with get tired of moguls all the time.

If I'm ever lucky enough for a powder day, I'll rent some fat things.  I never go fast on the groomers, so I don't need stability at speed or long, GS turns.

 

So I'm looking for an all-mountain (~80-90mm underfoot) ski that I will really like in the bumps and not hate in the crud.

 

I get the impression that the type of ski that works well in the moguls depends a lot on how the skier attacks the moguls.  I'm trying to improve, but I know I'm 31 and only ski a week or two a year, so I'll never be a zipper linin' world cupper.  

Here's a couple videos of me on blue moguls:
 

 

My research suggests I want a torsionally stiff ski, with a soft tip and tail, and traditional camber if possible.  Going by that, I'm looking at the following:

 

Blizzard Bushwacker
Scott The Ski
K2 Shreditor
Salomon Q-90
Nordica NrGy90(?)
Dynastar Powertrack 89(?)

 

If you have any opinions or suggestions for other skis, please let your voice be heard.

 

Thanks.

post #2 of 43

Not the Nordica NRGY 90 I can tell you that it's like a wide GS ski, 2 planks and likes to ski slow otherwise it's flapping in the tip.

 

Not the Powertrack 89 as it likes groomed slopes the best.

 

Scott has a wider tip, not that soft for bumping. Might be OK.

 

The others I have no clue but hand flexing in a shop, Salomon is nice softer flex, heard good things. Bushwacker probably the best bet for bumping.

post #3 of 43

Dynastar Powertrack got excellent marks in the reviews for it's bump performance and will be versatile enough for the other stuff you ski.

post #4 of 43

I like The Ski in nice bumps (and it's a great all around ski), but on firm/ratty bumps, I'd go with something a little stiffer. Maybe the Bushwacker? But probably something more like the Volkl Kendo to be honest. So, depends on how you ski bumps, and how picky you are about bump conditions.

 

My go-to for ratty, hard conditions is actually my cheater GS...so it totally depends on your style. 


Edited by LiveJazz - 12/22/15 at 10:24am
post #5 of 43
Volkl Kendo treats me fine in the bumps, and it's certainly all mountain.
post #6 of 43

Kendo is a bit on the stiff end of the spectrum to be "great" in the bumps.

It's great on the groomers railing turns, but I'd consider it more adequate vs great in the bumps.

 

For what it's worth the Kendo is the daily driver in my quiver.  

post #7 of 43

My only ski is the Brahma in a 180, I'm 5'9" 180lbs and get about 40 days a season.  My mix is more like 1/2-2/3 bumps and eastern trees with a good deal of high speed groomers mixed in.  Based on what you are describing for your conditions and how you like to ski, I think the Bushwacker (same as the Brahma, but with no metal) would be a great choice for you.  I've also heard great things about the Rossi E88, and there might even be a narrower option (E84?) that would be worth considering.  

post #8 of 43

I own a Bushwacker which I don't think they make anymore so you may have to go used.  I think it's a great bump ski.  I also have the Brahma which is a Bushwacker with metal.  I find it pretty good in bumps too and I find I ski bumps more aggresively with the Brahma as the extra stiffness dampens a lot of the impact.  That said, I do find the Bushwacker is easier to stay on top of and if I were just skiing bumps all day I would pull out the Bushwacker.  It does OK on groomers and hardpack too so long as you're not going mach speed.  Skiied it in some crud and it was OK there too.  Not a crud buster but a ski you can pick and plod your way through.

 

It's a really fun ski.  Kinda feel like a rock star when you're on 'em after skiing something with metal.

 

My skiing is similar to hrspear.  If you're skiing in the West with generally softer snow I would agree that the Bushwacker is a great choice for you.

post #9 of 43

Nice turns! :)

 

Quote:

My research suggests I want a torsionally stiff ski, with a soft tip and tail, and traditional camber if possible.  Going by that, I'm looking at the following:

 

Blizzard Bushwacker
Scott The Ski
K2 Shreditor
Salomon Q-90
Nordica NrGy90(?)
Dynastar Powertrack 89(?)

 

If you have any opinions or suggestions for other skis, please let your voice be heard.

 

Thanks.

 

The Kendo, suggested earlier though not on your list, has a stiff tip and tail, and the tail accelerates the skier out of the turn, to me: not the best for bumps - more like a fat, versatile, near-slalom ski. It's a lot of fun in bumps for a hard-working run or two, but not more, for me again.

 

The Bushmaster might work.  Its problem, to me, is its so-so edge, if you like to stay on edge instead of smear.  From your videos, you like to stay on edge.  

 

The E-88 is better in this regard, but in some ways similar to the Kendo: turny but a semi-stiff tail.  

 

Same with the NRGY90, which to me was in addition a blah ski.

 

 

The best bump ski I've found is the Kastle FX 84. (This year it's been changed to the FX 85.)  You can get them used for much less.

 

This year's (the FX 85) is softer, the past few year's were a bit stiffer, and before that the FX 84 was a bit softer again, though not as soft as the 85.  I detail this because, although I liked the wider FX 95 HP a lot as a versatile bump ski and all mountain ski, the FX 85, to me, was noticeably worse than the previous FX 84s.  (Could have just been the tune though.)

 

I did not include the FX 95 HP because although it is versatile and great in bumps, it's not the width you've focused on for bumps specifically.  (I have the same preference.)

 

I own the 176 FX 84 from maybe three to four years ago, and they are a delight in bumps for hours, a "cheater" bump ski, actually.  

 

Of the Shreditors, this week I'm getting the 191 K2 Shreditor 102 (mounted @ +3 with Schizo bindings; me ~150, 5'10"). I've been told it's very good in bumps, but I don't know this for sure first hand, other than it seemed very good in mild bumps for a run or two.  Will know more on this ski in a few weeks.

 

I can give you more detail on this ski or the shorter 184 Shreditor 102 if interested.  

Full Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.  I looked at all the relevant threads I could find, but didn't come across an answer.

 

Height: 5'11"
Weight: 165lbs
Ability: Expert (If we're being honest with each other, "Advanced")
Location (skiing): Southwestern Colorado (exclusively)
Days on the Snow: 6-10/year

 

I spend 75% of my time on moguls, but 15% of the time I end up skiing through some crud and tracked out powder because the folks I ski with get tired of moguls all the time.

If I'm ever lucky enough for a powder day, I'll rent some fat things.  I never go fast on the groomers, so I don't need stability at speed or long, GS turns.

 

So I'm looking for an all-mountain (~80-90mm underfoot) ski that I will really like in the bumps and not hate in the crud.

 

I get the impression that the type of ski that works well in the moguls depends a lot on how the skier attacks the moguls.  I'm trying to improve, but I know I'm 31 and only ski a week or two a year, so I'll never be a zipper linin' world cupper.  

Here's a couple videos of me on blue moguls:
 

 

My research suggests I want a torsionally stiff ski, with a soft tip and tail, and traditional camber if possible.  Going by that, I'm looking at the following:

 

Blizzard Bushwacker
Scott The Ski
K2 Shreditor
Salomon Q-90
Nordica NrGy90(?)
Dynastar Powertrack 89(?)

 

If you have any opinions or suggestions for other skis, please let your voice be heard.

 

Thanks.

post #10 of 43

Latigo, only caveat is the crud.  I like the Latigo in up to about 6 inches crud...anything deeper I'd want a wider ski...or longer...but don't want long in the bumps IMO.

post #11 of 43

You've got some good responses here...some people know what they are talking about, others don't. Weed out the bad. I like skiotter's response, his take is accurate.

 

Bushwacker

 

Skis with metal won't be great in the bumps, some will feel dead, others will bend which is why Bushwacker is good.

 

Also Line Chronics, or Bacons for out west.

post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post

You've got some good responses here...some people know what they are talking about, others don't.

I'm definitely in the second category.
post #13 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post


Scott has a wider tip, not that soft for bumping. Might be OK.


 



Have you skied The Ski by any chance? I'm kinda intrigued by this ski.
post #14 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post

so it totally depends on your style. 


 



Yeah, that's why I put those videos in my first post. I tend to carve pretty heavy, so I'm afraid the stiff tail on the Kendo will accelerate me too much. Great ski though.
post #15 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbear View Post

Kendo is a bit on the stiff end of the spectrum to be "great" in the bumps.


 



The Kendo has actually been my go-to demo ski for the past 5 years or so. I love it all over the mountain, and found it to be a lot of fun in the bumps. I like to think I'm in pretty good shape, but by the end of the day, I have to admit the Kendo is a little more than I can handle in the moguls. Since I live in Texas and I only get 6-10 days a season, I try and make the most of them. So the Kendo is probably to stiff for me to buy. Great ski though.
post #16 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post

not going mach speed.

 



Ha! My motto is "Slow & on the Snow". No mach speeds and no jumps of any kind.
post #17 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post

Nice turns! 

 








Thanks! My uncle (who taught me to ski) would be proud to read that. He used to bust my chops constantly for smearing turns. So much so that I doubt I'll ever learn to really ski bumps with the skid-slam-compress-extend maneuver. Even still, watching that video, I can see that my uphill ski is weak, and I know that in more challenging stuff I have a hard time staying out of the backseat.

Your feelings on the Kendo are exactly like mine. Which means I should probably stay away from the Rossi. The Nordica is struck from the list.

I'll definitely look into the FX 84. Any advice for buying skis used off ebay?

Have you tried The Ski? Everyone raves about it so much that I'm finding it difficult to ignore.

I'm going on my once a year trip on the 2nd of January, so I hope to have a set of skis by then. But regardless, please let keep me updated on your Shreditor demo.

Thanks again for all the great information.
post #18 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post

You've got some good responses here

 



You're absolutely right. Maybe I've just been hardened by other forums in the past, but this has been an incredible response for my first post here. Thanks yall.
post #19 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post

Bushwacker is a great choice for you.


 



Bushwacker has gotten a lot of love. It certainly makes the short list. It sounds like two other skis I've been on and really liked, the 2005/2006 Salomon 1080 Gun and the 2006 Fischer Rangi 88.
Edited by CS2-6 - 12/23/15 at 12:00am
post #20 of 43

You could benefit by getting your equipment dialed in for a proper stance, looks a bit bow legged, get the feet apart more also.

 

What are you skiing on in the vids? Looks like you're avoiding pointing the skis down the fall line directly and into the bump, possibly the ski is too stiff for you in those conditions??

 

Might want to to consider that when making a choice for those new skis.

post #21 of 43

Looks like your question is a lot like mine though I'm less into bumps and spend less times in there.  Reading responses to your questions has me weed some things out so thanks (indirectly) for everyone's responses here.

post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

Nice turns! 

 

I'll definitely look into the FX 84. Any advice for buying skis used off ebay?

Have you tried The Ski? Everyone raves about it so much that I'm finding it difficult to ignore.

I'm going on my once a year trip on the 2nd of January, so I hope to have a set of skis by then. But regardless, please let keep me updated on your Shreditor demo.

Thanks again for all the great information.

 

Finally got the 191 Shreditor 102s in the mail.  Will mount this week with Schizos.   

 

  I skied only the Scott Sagebrush, the next wider ski.   A nice ski, but I like a better edge.   This ski has very distinct, rounded turns - the Volkl Gotama has a similar feel but with more locked in edge.   Didn't try the Ski, as I was told it was less of an edgehold ski than the Sagebrush.  Philpug says The Ski is great in bumps; I suspect it is more of a smear/relaxed ski than I want.  

 

It's complicated about buying skis off ebay.

 

I've done it a lot.

 

New skis, including previous years' models, are no sweat - just check out the seller.

 

But used skis can work too.    

   What gives me some edge is I do my own tuning, and can flatten and renew an old ski well, a la @Jacques and his videos on this site (eg,

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/143391/an-alterntive-to-stone-grinding-a-ski-base-you-can-do-at-home

 

  With older used skis (not so much newer ones), I find that probably the typical private Kastle seller thought the ski was done, had seen better days, so he sold it.   Most skis, I find, you can base flatten, texture, polish the texture, re-set the edges, renew wax em, and a ski that was a bust becomes a bargain.

 

 But you have to ask if the used ski base and edges are still undamaged, and if either is noticeably thinner from repeated tunings.  And ask if there's rust (and thus lack of maintenance). And ask if the ski has been used in the park or has base damage, repaired or not.  And ask if the bindings have any damage or heavy wear, visible or not.   Whew.  

 

So once you know the model, year(s) and length ski you want, ask questions, look closely at pics to get a feeling about the skis, and probably go for a ski younger than 4 years old that has a good edge and an undamaged base.

  

The ebay return policy is great, all about "not as described" or "as described."  "Not as described" is automatically grounds for a seller paid for return per ebay requirement, not seller permission.  Usually, a ski you don't like on arrival is in some ways majorly "not as described," especially if you have asked questions about edges and condition.

 

Good luck!

post #23 of 43
Blister absolutely raves about the Fischer Motive 86ti as best balanced of the 80 somethings for use as all all mountain ski. That might go on your list, especially since nobody buys Fischers wink.gif and there will almost certainly be deals to be had (say, $330 right now).

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-fischer-motive-86-ti

I am looking at that ski for my 17 yo son who is on LX82's and just prefers a ski with hard snow chops all over the mountain.
Edited by NayBreak - 12/26/15 at 2:26pm
post #24 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post
 

You could benefit by getting your equipment dialed in for a proper stance, looks a bit bow legged, get the feet apart more also.

 

What are you skiing on in the vids? Looks like you're avoiding pointing the skis down the fall line directly and into the bump, possibly the ski is too stiff for you in those conditions??

 

Might want to to consider that when making a choice for those new skis.


I like the thought here, getting equipment to help my weakness and allow me to make the most of my strengths.  I like a tight-footed stance, so I'll probably have a hard time getting away from that.

Judging by the year, I was probably on a pair of used Salomon 1080 Guns, so they were probably very soft actually.

But while we're here, I'll take any and all critiques on my form, from anyone.

post #25 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

 

Finally got the 191 Shreditor 102s in the mail.  Will mount this week with Schizos.   

 

  I skied only the Scott Sagebrush, the next wider ski.   A nice ski, but I like a better edge.   This ski has very distinct, rounded turns - the Volkl Gotama has a similar feel but with more locked in edge.   Didn't try the Ski, as I was told it was less of an edgehold ski than the Sagebrush.  Philpug says The Ski is great in bumps; I suspect it is more of a smear/relaxed ski than I want.  

 

It's complicated about buying skis off ebay.

 

I've done it a lot.

 

New skis, including previous years' models, are no sweat - just check out the seller.

 

But used skis can work too.    

   What gives me some edge is I do my own tuning, and can flatten and renew an old ski well, a la @Jacques and his videos on this site (eg,

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/143391/an-alterntive-to-stone-grinding-a-ski-base-you-can-do-at-home

 

  With older used skis (not so much newer ones), I find that probably the typical private Kastle seller thought the ski was done, had seen better days, so he sold it.   Most skis, I find, you can base flatten, texture, polish the texture, re-set the edges, renew wax em, and a ski that was a bust becomes a bargain.

 

 But you have to ask if the used ski base and edges are still undamaged, and if either is noticeably thinner from repeated tunings.  And ask if there's rust (and thus lack of maintenance). And ask if the ski has been used in the park or has base damage, repaired or not.  And ask if the bindings have any damage or heavy wear, visible or not.   Whew.  

 

So once you know the model, year(s) and length ski you want, ask questions, look closely at pics to get a feeling about the skis, and probably go for a ski younger than 4 years old that has a good edge and an undamaged base.

  

The ebay return policy is great, all about "not as described" or "as described."  "Not as described" is automatically grounds for a seller paid for return per ebay requirement, not seller permission.  Usually, a ski you don't like on arrival is in some ways majorly "not as described," especially if you have asked questions about edges and condition.

 

Good luck!


Interesting.  I'm thinking you and I have very similar mogul skiing styles, and would probably like the same ski.

Thanks for all the ebay information.  That's a huge help.  I'm going to try and not go this route, but if I have to, it's great to be prepared.

 

Thanks again

post #26 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

Blister absolutely raves about the Fischer Motive 86ti as best balanced of the 80 somethings for use as all all mountain ski. That might go on your list, especially since nobody buys Fischers wink.gif and there will almost certainly be deals to be had (say, $330 right now).

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-fischer-motive-86-ti

I am looking at that ski for my 17 yo son who is on LX82's and just prefers a ski with hard snow chops all over the mountain.


That's a ski I hadn't considered.  I'm concerned it might be a little too stiff for hard, skied off bumps though.

post #27 of 43
If you can swing the money, consider Hart - a mogul,ski that does all mountain

You may also want to PM. Dawgcatching as he demos lots of skis and most of his reviews speak to moguls in particular


My suggestions for improvement in moguls: deeper absorb, greater turn finish. These are less critical on shallower terrain but make all the difference on steeper terrain with larger moguls

Mogul skis don't have a ton of sidecut, so narrower pow skis can often do well as a mogul ski Too wide and you will find your skis clacking tigether a lot
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
 


That's a ski I hadn't considered.  I'm concerned it might be a little too stiff for hard, skied off bumps though.

 

I ski the Motive 88 which was replaced by the 86ti.  Very similar skis.  It's a pretty decent bump ski, but maybe not one I would put at the top of the list for what you are looking for. That said I've skied it in bumps in Vermont (MUCH firmer than what your are used to) as well as Summit County CO.

post #29 of 43

I enjoyed watching the video of you in the moguls.  Impressive as far as I am concerned.  Last time I skied I was trying moguls and am looking forward to skiing them this year.  

post #30 of 43
I've been skiing on the Nordica NRGY 80 which is a great bump ski and is really easy going. It's the best bump ski I've been on. It's more of a narrow all mountain ski rather than a dedicated groomer zoomer. The dimensions are really similar to the Latigo and from what I've read, skis very similarly. It has straighter profile than most carvers but still does really well on soft to firm groomers. It's not awesome on ice but thankfully we don't get too much of that in CO. It's rockered tip and tail and cambered underfoot and does suffer a bit in the crud. It's a really light feeling, energetic ski that's pretty quick edge to edge. It's not as lightening quick as the Fisher Progressor 8+ that I've replaced it with but makes short radius turns with ease. It'll carve, skid and scarve if you want and makes any size turn if have the skills. It's a bit on the narrow end of the skis you're considering but will work well for just about anything less than 4-5" of fresh. A couple of weeks ago Evo.com was blowing out these for $369 with bindings and free shipping which is a great deal. Hope this helps.
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