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Removing the burr caused by sharpening

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

Two of the "guiding principles" of the tuning forum here are:

  1. Sharpening the side edge will (usually) cause a burr that needs to be removed by stoning the base edge
  2. Don't ever touch the base edge again once it's set.

 

These two steps seem to contradict each other as removing the burr means you have to put something up against the base edge?  Is there something "magic" about ceramic stones that will enable them to remove the burr without increasing the base edge angle?

 

Since I started doing my edge work last season, I've always removed the burr caused by step#1 by putting a ceramic stone in a base bevel guide and giving the base edge a pass or two.  I've seen others advocate doing this by hand.  Any particular reason to go one way or the other (i.e., guides vs. by hand)?  I've always been worried about rolling the stone over my nice newly sharpened edge and dulling it...  And here in New England, I want sharp edges.  :)

post #2 of 9

I won't say that I know this for absolute certainty but I think we often exaggerate the importance of NOT touching the base edge because with the wrong tool in the wrong hands, of someone that maybe doesn't know any better, the base edge can go from a 1 degree to a 2 degree or even 2+ rather quickly over the course of a few home tuning sessions and the only way to fix or change the base bevel is with a re-grind.

 

The only thing special about ceramic stones, IMO, is they're very durable and can be used dry or wet.  They work great for final polishing and or honing an edge but they don't really do much cutting.  It would take a VERY longggggggggg time to change the base bevel with your typical double sided ceramic stone.

 

Dealing with the "burr" that can develop while you're doing the side edge is just another step in the tuning stage and there are a variety of ways in which it can be dealt with, depending on how significant the burr, is.  If the burr is significant or big, then it'll take a bit more work to eliminate it and I say eliminate because with a large burr, you sometimes have to go back and forth from side edge to base edge before you get it completely cut off.  If it's big, just running a hard stone, like a white ceramic, will possibly just roll it over to the side edge so it may take a few times going over both bevels before it is gone.  I typically use one of three different tools on the base edge, ceramic, Ark. hard stone, and Swix blue gummy.  The blue gummy works great but make sure you hold it flat and don't press very hard or you'll dull your edge.

 

There's no "one" stone that is the holy grail but rather a few different ones that'll work well, provided they're used properly.

 

You don't need to use a base edge guide but if prefer to use one, then use it.  I just hold the stone I'm using flat or slightly tipped up and make a pass or two.  One of the things I like about using the ceramic or Ark. hard stone is because they are so fine grained you can really feel the edge through them and after you do this enough you know right away if there is a burr because you feel it through the stone.  With a gummy, even the hard blue one, you won't notice it as much and it's important to make sure you keep it flat.  Also, when I'm all done I usually will run the blue gummy, with very light pressure, down the length of the cutting edge.

 

Get yourself a jewelers loop or better yet, one of those magnifying flip down headset things.  They aren't all the expensive and they'll allow you to really see what's going one.  They work great for a variety of different tasks.

post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
when I'm all done I usually will run the blue gummy, with very light pressure, down the length of the cutting edge.

 

I've heard others (atomicman?) advocating this step as well...  I've do it sometimes and skip it sometimes...  can't say I notice any difference in how the skis feel when I get back on snow.

 

What does this step do?

post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

 

I've heard others (atomicman?) advocating this step as well...  I've do it sometimes and skip it sometimes...  can't say I notice any difference in how the skis feel when I get back on snow.

 

What does this step do?

That is what gummi stones are for. It takes the final very slight burr off the the actual edge point and makes for a very smooth clean edge point, you can feel the difference with your finger after you do this. 

 

As far as knocking off the hanging burr...I use an arkansas stone freehand flat against the base edge steel. 

 

Make a couple of passes with very light pressure. 

 

This absolutely will not increase your base bevel.


Edited by Atomicman - 3/12/16 at 8:02am
post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

makes for a very smooth clean edge point, you can feel the difference with your finger after you do this. 

 

 

And a smooth clean edge is what you're looking for.  Often, a burr is misinterpreted as uber sharp and a clean smooth edge may give some, the notion their edge isn't as sharp because it doesn't have that nasty, ouch, razor sharp feel to it but in all actuality, that ouchie razor sharp feel is just a really thin, weak piece of metal, aka burr, that's been worked out to the edge.

 

If any have spent much time learning the art of sharpening knives it'll make complete sense because it's the same burr you deal with there, too.  A little micro burr on a knife edge can falsely make some think it's uber sharp because it has the ouchie razor sharp feel to it but really all you're feeling is the super thin piece of metal that's been worked out to the edge and because it's so thin, as soon as it folds over, it won't cut worth a darn.

 

A sharp clean edge with casual contact shouldn't cut you but an edge with a burr can.  Just something to think about.

post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
 

And a smooth clean edge is what you're looking for.  Often, a burr is misinterpreted as uber sharp and a clean smooth edge may give some, the notion their edge isn't as sharp because it doesn't have that nasty, ouch, razor sharp feel to it but in all actuality, that ouchie razor sharp feel is just a really thin, weak piece of metal, aka burr, that's been worked out to the edge.

 

If any have spent much time learning the art of sharpening knives it'll make complete sense because it's the same burr you deal with there, too.  A little micro burr on a knife edge can falsely make some think it's uber sharp because it has the ouchie razor sharp feel to it but really all you're feeling is the super thin piece of metal that's been worked out to the edge and because it's so thin, as soon as it folds over, it won't cut worth a darn.

 

A sharp clean edge with casual contact shouldn't cut you but an edge with a burr can.  Just something to think about.

:beercheer:  Exactly! 

post #7 of 9

All the above.  Good done.

post #8 of 9

 

This is the burr on a chisel edge.  Same principle as a ski edge.  The steel is pulled and stretched into a thin edge that hinders the sharp edge.  Remove it.  Deburring the edge is nothing like removing steel from the edge itself.  A brief swipe with a fine stone or similar tool works well.

 

 

A cabinet scraper has an intentional burr used to scrape the wood smooth.  Nothing new here, this is how steel reacts when pulled by a burnishing tool or sharpening tool.

post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post

Two of the "guiding principles" of the tuning forum here are:
  1. Sharpening the side edge will (usually) cause a burr that needs to be removed by stoning the base edge
  2. Don't ever touch the base edge again once it's set.

These two steps seem to contradict each other as removing the burr means you have to put something up against the base edge?  Is there something "magic" about ceramic stones that will enable them to remove the burr without increasing the base edge angle?

Since I started doing my edge work last season, I've always removed the burr caused by step#1 by putting a ceramic stone in a base bevel guide and giving the base edge a pass or two.  I've seen others advocate doing this by hand.  Any particular reason to go one way or the other (i.e., guides vs. by hand)?  I've always been worried about rolling the stone over my nice newly sharpened edge and dulling it...  And here in New England, I want sharp edges.  smile.gif

I tend to think of setting the edges as the time I use a file, then follow up with stones through a progression. The rest of the time I just polish or clean them with finer grit stones. I go by sound and feel mostly.

I know that even with stones you can wear things down, or in the case of the base edge, up, but unless you are using unneeded pressure or a coarse grit, this should be minimal. Not doing it will have a bigger impact by leaving the burr than doing it and possibly changing the base edge angle slightly. Very slightly. I guess you could also argue that skiing on hard surfaces like we enjoy in the east will put waaayyy more friction on the base edge than any hand held stone or gummy as long as the pressure is minimal. It's the same friction that removed the structure from the base.

I think a good Way to think about this is you are wanting to remove a burr and not change the base edge angle or take away any base edge material. Just what folded over from the side edge. So you are still working the side edge. You are just coming at it from a different angle.
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