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2015-16 Stockli Scale Delta Quick review

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

so, this is a totally off the radar ski, and I'll get more in depth as I get more conditions, but with 2 mornings on it, I'll put out my first impressions...

 

me: 5ft 11, 164lbs, level 3 psia, ski moderate speeds. focus on smoothness and precision over excitement and energy, ski all terrain, prefer off piste 3D snow and terrain. 47yrs old, still get out a few days a week, for a couple hours.

I tend to ski 88 to 98mm ski all the time. 888 elan has been my skinny ski; favorite ski of all time that I still ski a lot is Kastle MX 98; favorite current model ski, Fisher Motive 95 ti.

 

Ski,

177 stockli Scale Delta, 128-83-110, 17m radius, little bit of early rise.

I skied it in powder over packed, 4-8in, then skied out pow and packed off piste, bumps and loose snow today, so not really the ideal place for my skinniest ski, but I'll get more hard snow tests on it later...

 

To give you some other reviewers background, I am pasting review comments from skicanada:

This sporty little driver has a tip to yank you through any turn, anytime, anywhere and at any speed. The Delta is snappy and full of energy, and would allow you to enjoy those times you second-guessed a tight line. It has a powerful, grippy bite that eats a turn early, ripping through an arc with superior stability and performance. how“smooth, stable and easy it is to ride for that aggressive all-mountain guy.” "perfect for “expert skiers who like the versatility of both short and medium turns.”

 

First off:

as it came to me and I looked at shape, length and construction, I was impressed. It's a stockli, and shape looked great, flex felt great.

but,

I noticed the mount line, and freaked out a bit. It looked waaaay back. So I put in next to similar length skis, with similar amounts of early rise. measured narrowest part of ski, sidewall depth, and decided I needed a demo binder for sure, and would start well forward.

 

I mounted the demo binding 4CM forward, and it looked about right.

 

and,

 

WOW, what a sweet feeling, flexing, carving, rebounding, floating and smiling ski!

 

First runs, moderate pitch, a few inch on top of groomed snow. This ski begged to be flexed, and provided predictable response and energy. tip engages early, asking to be tipped higher, transitions super smooth between edges.

 

Then, steeper terrain opened, and I mixed up radii and speed in 8in over packed bumps. Once again, this ski asks for energy, and responds with predictable flex, rebound and seamless releases. it's predictable but exciting, if that's possible. I had 5 of my best runs of the last couple years, in pow, on a 83mm ski... hum, just a great ski.

 

2 days after storm:

skied out pow, bumps, windpack, wind scoured harder snow, steeps, some odd terrain w/ new openings, rock/tree/bush avoidance.

 

In this terrain, this ski was quick, flexible in line change, edgeset to drift. That said, this ski prefers to be edged, it will drift to the next good spot, but that is not it's default. So many skis these days are designed with drift as the default, but there are also skis that are so edgy they can't be drifted happily. In bumps, the high end construction, tip shape and predictable flex team up to absorb irregularities extremely well, edge change is quick, and the tip likes to be engaged early.

Carving turns, groomers, compared to my other skis, this is a carving ski. It likes to be hooked up  early, and can mix up a variety of radii at different speeds.

 

So, really, all I need is a real hard snow day to complete this impression, and I'll do that.

 

Back to mount point, that is the funky part, but I think 4-5cm forward is money. That is narrowest part of sidecut, tallest part of sidewall, and in line w/ other skis of similiar design.

That also puts it about where a Kastle mount point would be, but still behind many skis, like most french skis, elan k2 etc.

 

check this one out, it's not marketed (at all), but it just a wonderful all around ski, that maximizes fun in every condition! I ski for sensations, and I don't think I"m the only one. The sensations of this ski are highly refined, silky smooth, but energetic and ready for anything! You just find this amazing feel every day.

 

Cheers,

Holiday 


Edited by Holiday - 12/15/15 at 4:50pm
post #2 of 15

Appreciate the head's up. Not one I would have earmarked, but sounds like it could be a sleeper bargain come spring. 

post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Appreciate the head's up. Not one I would have earmarked, but sounds like it could be a sleeper bargain come spring. 

 

bargain for what you get maybe, but few would consider stockli's to be inexpensive....

 

Another great morning on them this AM. super fun on groomed harder snow, and Chutes at mt rose were open, so lots of laps on steeps w/ bumps forming. maybe not the perfect ski for this, wider, less sidecut and more drifty tend to more friendly, but this ski behaved quite well. Unlike many other skis that have this more hooked up feel, the tip on this one was more friendly, and worked it's way the big chicken heads with trying to spear or over grip.

 

good fun, for sure. 

 

cheers,

Wade

post #4 of 15

Nice review, thanks.  There was a Stockli demo day at Stowe a few days ago.  I talked to the Stockli rep there and he was poo-poo'ing the entire "scale" line, basically saying that if you're into hard-snow cruising, then the "laser" series is better and if you're into "everything" than the Stormrider series is better, so... 

 

I'll have to try the scale series out now once some more terrain opens up and see what the fuss is about.  The various reviews I've seen of them are certainly intriguing.

post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

Nice review, thanks.  There was a Stockli demo day at Stowe a few days ago.  I talked to the Stockli rep there and he was poo-poo'ing the entire "scale" line, basically saying that if you're into hard-snow cruising, then the "laser" series is better and if you're into "everything" than the Stormrider series is better, so... 

 

I'll have to try the scale series out now once some more terrain opens up and see what the fuss is about.  The various reviews I've seen of them are certainly intriguing.

Interesting,

and maybe not totally untrue,

but as Scott said to me  when he said it was the best 80something waisted ski for me (we've skied together a lot, he knows my leanings and terrain I like to ski),

 

"it is 85% of the Laser series on trail, and 85% of the Stormrider series off piste."

 

I have to admit, I was not a fan of the new SR 95 or 107,  and I'd much rather have this Scale, but I didn't ski the Lasers. That said, this may be the most "on piste" targeted ski I've owned in years.

(also, I plan to ski the SR's again next week, as I am thinking the funky mount point of this one may hold true there, and if I tweak it, the SRs may work better.)

 

Cheers!

W

post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Appreciate the head's up. Not one I would have earmarked, but sounds like it could be a sleeper bargain come spring. 

 

Perhaps....we already sold through our initial order (granted, only 2, but still....)

 

I thought this was more or less a home run when I used it last year.  I really liked the SR88, but this had more energy, more powerful feel, more fun packed into the ski, and felt just as versatile.  If the SR88 is the versatile SUV, this is the super sporty crossover SUV-coupe thingy.  

post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

Nice review, thanks.  There was a Stockli demo day at Stowe a few days ago.  I talked to the Stockli rep there and he was poo-poo'ing the entire "scale" line, basically saying that if you're into hard-snow cruising, then the "laser" series is better and if you're into "everything" than the Stormrider series is better, so... 

 

I'll have to try the scale series out now once some more terrain opens up and see what the fuss is about.  The various reviews I've seen of them are certainly intriguing.

 

I do agree the Laser (with the exception of the AX) is very much more focused toward hard snow. AX is almost Scale-like in how it feels.  I didn't feel the SR88 was a better ski off-piste than the Scale Delta, just different; softer at the tip, comfortable, but lacking something that the MX88 has always given me.  This feels much more comparable (although completely different in feel) to the MX88.  Others will like the quieter, comfortable nature of the SR88, which is extremely confident and easy to use in any snow condition.  It just lacks the zip that makes the Scale really come alive. 

post #8 of 15
Nice review just compared delta to the stormtider vario with couple inches of snow in Les 2 Alps and have to say I almost completely agree with your assessment. Vario is much more stable on bumps and longer turns with higher speed , but delta is so much fun to ride . At some point you forget the skis are there - effortless! But besides less control on higher speeds there is one more drawback, the tip it wobbly off piste.
post #9 of 15

I bought this ski from Wade a few weeks ago.

They took the slow-ride back to Canada, but I luckily had one shot to ski them on Friday before calling it a season.

Me:  5'9" 175 lbs, 49yo, intermediate+ 

 

My "reference ski" is FX94 176.  I know it's wide, but I luv that ski on groomers and most everything else.

It is a ski I never have to think about, one I am completely at ease with under my feet, going fast or slow, in perfect snow or crap snow.

My only other direct experience with Stockli was that I rented the Laser AX and SR88 for a few hours a couple months ago.  

 

First off, I raised an eye-brow when Wade said he mounted these at +4cm.

That type of forward mount is usually reserved for fatter pow-oriented skis, not a skinnier ski with strong front-side ambitions.

With the Attack 13 demo-binding and my 316 BSL, my farthest back mount point possible is +1cm.

 

So I'm at my 600 ft groomer hill Blue Mountain, for first runs at 8:20am.  Conditions were groomed granular.  It never got below freezing overnight the snow was only moderately firm, and within 2 hours softened up considerably with bigger clumps forming as it got pushed around.

 

I immediately liked these from within the first couple hundred feet of pointing them downhill.

I don't like super turn'y skis, and the Scale Delta reacted to my inputs with a turn shape that was in my wheelhouse.

Ski feel was excellent.  I have owned many Kastle skis, and the Stockli had a similar very smooth response.

From the first hour of nicely flat spring groomers, to 3 hours later after it got all beat up, the Delta was very versatile in all those conditions.

The ski had enough beef to either carve through the spring clumps, or the tip rise offered a platform to go over the crap.

The ski also had a lightness to it that quick adjustments could be made on the spot, say when barrelling down through a crappy line.

 

I also did 5 runs on FX95-HP 181 and somehow I did not ski that ski well -> will revisit them next season.

Swapped them out for my FX94, and had 4-5 great runs on them.

A quick comparison to the Scale, the FX94 felt more substantial underfoot -> more mass, more solid feel, stiffer tip

Scale was lighter feeling, though still plenty "damp", quicker turning, more energy, yet still very good in bumpy snow

Keep in mind I only had 3 hours in very specific warmer spring conditions so YMMV.

 

I really liked the Scale Delta.  I look forward to getting it out next season on our typical hard groomers.

And to see how it  behaves in heavier chopped up snow.

 

I played around A LOT with mount point, changing it every 2-3-4 runs. The Attack demo makes it so easy.

I started out at +1cm, then +2, +3, +1, +2, +1.5

At each interval, you can see & feel how the tip engages more and more.

I stopped at +3 as the tip engagement was "right-there",  ski reaction very immediate, etc.  I didn't need any more.

For my first outing with them in the given spring conditions,  I liked them at +1.5  or +2

 

The way it sits on the snow, the Scale's tips look like a smaller version of the SR88.,

At +1cm, the tip almost kind of flaps.

As you move the mount point forward, the tip loses its "flap" and engages the snow earlier.

With the demo binding, I can easily see giving this ski a more off-piste focus vs a front-side focus, depending on what the snow gods have provided you that day.

 

To repeat from above:   "it is 85% of the Laser series on trail, and 85% of the Stormrider series off piste."

... that's a helluva marriage :D 


Edited by ARL67 - 4/18/16 at 4:19am
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 

Great review, 

I"m glad you are enjoying 'em!

 

Cheers!

 

W

post #11 of 15

Hi folks, great reviews thank you very much.

 

I'm about to buy a pair of the Scale Delta's and would appreciate some advice.

 

Me: 47 yrs young, fairly expert skier (5 years of seasons), I ski two or three times a year mainly in Chamonix, France.  I'm 168cm tall, around 70 kgs.  I have a very lightfooted and graceful style, most friends say that I seem to float along and flow really nicely.  I do like an aggressive fast attack every now and again though, mainly big carved turns holding the edge for a series of long GS turns.  I would say I ski 50:50 on piste and off.  I've spend the last 10 years skiing on 170cm Stockli Snake skis which I've thoroughly enjoyed but they have got quite soft now and I think I need to upgrade.

 

I'll be buying these 'blind' so will have never tried them and won't have the chance to test binding settings.

 

Questions:

 

I've never had demo bindings but they seem like an interesting solution as to where I eventually feel happiest with the bindings.  As these will have to last me the next 5 years or so I don't mind spending money on bindings so are there any you would recommend?  Are there any particular downsides - I couldn't care less who looks at them and wonders if I've bought a pair of ex-demos!!

 

The length they come in are 167 or 177 but I've always skied on slightly longer skis for my height (back in the day I had 205 race skis!!).  Looking at the Stockli site it suggests that I should go for the 167's which would make sense as 177 seems to long.  Would you concur?

 

I intend to buy them in the US and have them shipped to a friends house in Seattle who will bring them to the UK when she comes here in the summer.  Do you have any suggestions as to where is the best (cheapest!!) place to buy them?

 

I actually spoke to a guy at Stockli who suggested these or the Stormrider 83's but having read the reviews have gone for the Scale Delta's, do you have any suggestions as to pros and cons of either ski considering how and where I ski?

 

Any other information very gratefully received.

 

Jonathan

post #12 of 15

I am 175cm 80kg 49yo and I would be pretty sure that YOU are a much better skier then me.

Wade, the starter of this review thread,  is 180cm 75kg 47yo , and "rumour has it" he is a pretty damn good skier ;)

I have the 177 and did not find them long at all, nor are they heavy in overall weight and turning feel 

 

FYI the radius of the 177 (M) is 17.0,  while the 167 (S) is 15.0

http://www.stoeckli.ch/int-en/scale-delta-20926

 

For a USA dealer, Scott / Dawgcatching is your man , located in Oregon, plenty close to Seattle.

http://www.epicski.com/t/146383/fs-new-stockli-scale-delta-699-177cm

https://www.dawgcatching.com/collections/stockli

Scott can provide you with an Attack 13 demo-binding, or a Look Pivot if you prefer that route.


Edited by ARL67 - 4/24/16 at 11:42am
post #13 of 15

That's great, thanks ARL67, although both you & Wade are a fair bit taller than me so I'm not sure whether I might be better off going for the 167 rather than the 177.  Any thoughts?  The Snakes I have been skiing on were already 'apparently' a bit long for my height at 170cm and the Stockli site suggests that I should be on 167's so again, the 177's seem a stretch.

 

Does anyone else have a suggestions on length - Dawg, Wade?

 

Jonathan

post #14 of 15
Not to be a downer but Chamonix off piste can be quite hard packed and my experience on delta was not very positive off piste. While I loved them on groomed or a bit rough slopes, off piste the tip was very floppy .

If you are doing off piste 50/50 I would go with Stomrider series with bigger underfoot. I actually just bought, based on the demo in Chamonix , Stormrider SR-100 . It just felt very right for me between all 4 pairs I tried ( delta , vario and Katle FX 84)
post #15 of 15

Thanks for your thoughts rewqski, very much appreciated.  You're absolutely right about the off piste in Chamonix in that it is often quite hard packed and cruddy - it doesn't help that there are so many great skiers there so it gets skied out very quickly!!  In fairness though this was something that attracted me towards the Deltas - the slightly narrower waist felt more in keeping with the snakes I have been used to.  The other reason for considering demo bindings was that I could move the bindings a bit further forward in the event that the fronts wobble around too much.

 

My wife tested some Dynastar 2.0 Cham 97's and when I tried them I found them to be far too wide for comfort.  Maybe it's just what I'm used to but I guess I just prefer a slightly more carving profile.

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