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Diamond Stones -- expert advice needed ! - Page 5

post #121 of 148
Yeah sounds interesting, clearly a lenghtier ski gives you more stability
Mines are 183 / 23m and the marker plate is adjusted for a softer flex.
Conparing with a pair of atomic d2 gs ( cheater) the volkls have a more consistent flex pattern and do not snap when pushed hard.
I feel confortably doing stressed turns at 90km/h, clocked myself with the Ski Tracks app, and the tip shape really helps alot in my opinion.

And to be on topic, the edge construction is different, it holds better on different tipes of snow

post #122 of 148

Hey I keep checking this thread when there are new posts because I'm interested in diamond stones.

post #123 of 148
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaprilia View Post

Yeah, i think the fun factor on 35m is quite low comparing with these skis
Actually my pair was owned by a girl racer, Edit Miklos, and after some days on them i really like the way they feel, their stiffness and edge quality makes them sharp turners.
Even if i don't sit very low on turns, in transition i put my femura parralel to the slope,i know i can go lower, but the turn speed and control as i feel them are as i desire.
I think the progress sits in little details.
My gopro showed me that i finally got rid of the A frame habit smile.gif
Next thing to work on is to make some room for the nails in the boots:))



Hi vmaprilia , what is the name of this place ( I may have skied it in the early 2000, but not quite sure from this picture)
Edited by Bogatyr - 1/28/16 at 7:00am
post #124 of 148
First pic is from Les Deux Alpes in France, went there 2 times with a group trip ,about 2000 Romanians fill the resort, you can search on youtube " snow fest deux alpes"
post #125 of 148
I saw a pair of blizzard gs fis skis, 177, with the new model of marker bindings mounted on the same piston plate.
I was curious regarding the edge thickness and the side edge was similar, but the base edge was double in thickness...it had a weird thread pattern and had the same colour as the base material, could barely distinguish it

post #126 of 148
Thread Starter 
A question for Jacques, Atomicman, Razie or any expert tuner ( if you still follow) : with the regular shaped skis , you normally detune 1-2 inches before and 1-2 inches after the widest tip and tail point . Where do you detune if you have a ski with a progressive five-point sidecut like the Dynastar Powertrack 89 for example ( or some of the Salomons) --- from the widest tip (tail) point all the way up (down) or ...... Thank you .
post #127 of 148

I haven't detuned in a while... just run the soft gummy along the edge once without much pressure... 

post #128 of 148

Likewise I never detune any of my skis.  

post #129 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

A question for Jacques, Atomicman, Razie or any expert tuner ( if you still follow) : with the regular shaped skis , you normally detune 1-2 inches before and 1-2 inches after the widest tip and tail point . Where do you detune if you have a ski with a progressive five-point sidecut like the Dynastar Powertrack 89 for example ( or some of the Salomons) --- from the widest tip (tail) point all the way up (down) or ...... Thank you .
Decide what part you're skiing on and dull from there.
That's not detuning since you don't need to tune edges you don't ski on. I want the very tip of skis round. Getting that caught in a hole can launch you or coming down in a half pipe if you hit the very tip you want it to slide.
On a five point I wouldn't round it till well into the curl up. I don't think you want the part in front of the carving section , widest, super sharp though.
post #130 of 148
No detune, that's what base bevel does.
post #131 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

No detune, that's what base bevel does.
He's talking about a new school ski shape, not old school. It looks like this:

post #132 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

I haven't detuned in a while... just run the soft gummy along the edge once without much pressure... 

+1 Except I use a Hard Blue Gummi

post #133 of 148
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Decide what part you're skiing on and dull from there.
That's not detuning since you don't need to tune edges you don't ski on. I want the very tip of skis round. Getting that caught in a hole can launch you or coming down in a half pipe if you hit the very tip you want it to slide.
On a five point I wouldn't round it till well into the curl up. I don't think you want the part in front of the carving section , widest, super sharp though.
Thanks for the input. Makes sense!
post #134 of 148
Thread Starter 
To all who don't detune : how do you prevent your tails from being hooky in bumps then?(and tips)
post #135 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

To all who don't detune : how do you prevent your tails from being hooky in bumps then?(and tips)

 

Never detune your tails. Your tail helps grip through the end of the turn. (Don't detune the tip either.)

 

If you turn on the top of the bump, the tail can't hook, nor can the tip. 

 

If you turn around the side of the bump or the backside, the tail has nothing to hook against. You want the tip to engage in this case. 

 

 

 

If you turn by crashing into each bump frontside, I guess your tail could "hook", but detuning the ski won't stop it; to address, you'd have to flatten the bump. (Crashing into bump faces is a terrible bump line)

 

Whenever I feel the tail "hook", it's because I've screwed something up tactically, or I lacked the technical skills to ski those bumps in those conditions. It's not the ski's fault, and detuning wouldn't improve the situation. 

post #136 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

No detune, that's what base bevel does.
He's talking about a new school ski shape, not old school. It looks like this:


Even on a ski like this the rockered tip and tail prevent engagement until edged and even then if I grasp the concept correctly engage very slowly but progressively because of the shape.

 

So even more so, no detune is required or need.

 

As to Razie's and A-man's comment, all they are meaning is just to take off a touch of edge, leave it sharp but not razor sharp.

 

Sharps skis will let you know if you ski correctly by rewarding you with performance and  by punishing you if you don't :D.

post #137 of 148
Traditionally, skis were sharpened between the contact points. This was way up front and way in the back. Newer blunt tip designs engage the sidecut up into the curl of the tip a bit so you sharpen further up from contact. Contact meaning full camber ski on ground where it touche. So "detuning", (aka butchery if a shaped ski), occurs back from these points. Other wise, that curled up tip if very sharp is a liability. I've seen it and experienced it.

I can't see any scenario where the front of this ski ahead of the widest point will engage hard snow. So it doesn't need to be real sharp. The tail I could see engaging somehow.
post #138 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

To all who don't detune : how do you prevent your tails from being hooky in bumps then?(and tips)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

Never detune your tails. Your tail helps grip through the end of the turn. (Don't detune the tip either.)

 

If you turn on the top of the bump, the tail can't hook, nor can the tip. 

 

If you turn around the side of the bump or the backside, the tail has nothing to hook against. You want the tip to engage in this case. 

 

 

 

If you turn by crashing into each bump frontside, I guess your tail could "hook", but detuning the ski won't stop it; to address, you'd have to flatten the bump. (Crashing into bump faces is a terrible bump line)

 

Whenever I feel the tail "hook", it's because I've screwed something up tactically, or I lacked the technical skills to ski those bumps in those conditions. It's not the ski's fault, and detuning wouldn't improve the situation. 


Have to agree with that. I remember years ago when us guy's would demo skis and felt wide tails were the cause of the tails hooking in the bumps. But now that we have improved  our skiing technical skills, I have not problems in the bumps even with my fat powder skis. Granted being rocker tip and tail may help but even on my full camber Gotama's I have not problems in bumps.

post #139 of 148
In 50+ years of skiing I've always skied with the sharpest skis, and also set the friends and families ski the same. My answer has always been learn edge feel and it is not an issue, regardless of the skill level or equipment. All it does is identify flaws in your edge feel and enhance your edging. Anything else is a compromise.
post #140 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

A question for Jacques, Atomicman, Razie or any expert tuner ( if you still follow) : with the regular shaped skis , you normally detune 1-2 inches before and 1-2 inches after the widest tip and tail point . Where do you detune if you have a ski with a progressive five-point sidecut like the Dynastar Powertrack 89 for example ( or some of the Salomons) --- from the widest tip (tail) point all the way up (down) or ...... Thank you .


With those skis I round the edges tip and tail AFTER the widest point of the ski.  For many of these types of skis that can be quite a long portion.  I use a file, then hit it with some sandpaper.  I round it off enough so it can never be sharpened again at those points ever.  For example I have some Armada JJ's at 171.  Only about 100 is left sharp as they have lots of reverse sidecut tip and tail.  Those ski really short on groom or hard pack.  12 m turn radius.

post #141 of 148
Is this arkansas stone usable with a file guide?
Is it ok to use after a 400grit moonflex as a final polish?

post #142 of 148

yes. you could go up to a 600 diamond first, if you have one.

post #143 of 148
I have a single 400grit moonflex.
This arkansas stone comes in "hard" and "translucent" variants, do they correspond to a certain moonflex grit,or they give a finer finish than a high grit moonflex?
post #144 of 148

that stone does not grind the metal like the diamonds do - it actually polishes the metal and hardens it up a bit as well. it's more honing it than sharpening it - lookup the difference.

 

cheers

post #145 of 148
Sounds it's worth it.
Also the stone has to be used with 50/50 water/alcohol ?
post #146 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaprilia View Post

Sounds it's worth it.
Also the stone has to be used with 50/50 water/alcohol ?


Yes.  Use plenty of fluid.

post #147 of 148
Depends on the file guide. You using just a clip or is the file guide something that will only take a certain stone? The Arkansas stones are thick. I use one, but it doesn't work in all my holders. It's one of the last things I use.
post #148 of 148
It surely fits,i use a toko 87* with a clamp
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