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Ski business makes too many skis-why haven't we seen a shakeout? - Page 2

post #31 of 37

The Rusty, quick question: What makes a thread movable to "hot topics?" Honesty curious. Is it simply disagreement, or the level of civility, or the specific topic or thread drift?

 

I ask because: 1) "Hot Topics" is the kiss of death for a thread, so the move involves both a judgement by you or other mods about what's political/hot, and a second judgement about whether the political ideas should be aired publicly. It's convenient to say they still are, just in a new place, but I'll bet any casual post rate count will show that once something's moved, it's basically over in terms of readership. So moving a topic (I suppose including this post) is not innocent or neutral; it's a form of preemptive censorship. 

 

And 2) It would be helpful to specify what's the trigger. If people are being uncivil, just say so and lock the thread. If talking about market capitalism, pro and con, is a problem, then for sure I can see it might be considered something outside the pale for Ski Gear Discussion if it ceases to involve ski gear every so often. A couple of my posts skirt this line. OTOH, talking about a 200 year old economic theory is not exactly "hot," doubt anyone much cares enough to get offended whether they like the theory or not. 

 

If it's about climate change, it's not a hot debate, it's an established scientific conclusion. Indeed, climate change is something that the world's leadership is meeting about as I write this, and it is something that will have outcomes affecting our skiing. Far as I know, even every single presidential candidate agrees the world is getting warmer.

 

What's ideological, obviously, is attribution; what's causing climate change. And what we should do about it. Those are different. Although still I think that we should have threads about same out front, not buried in "hot topics," because again, causality and solutions impact our skiing. And our purchasing ski gear. This is not like arguing Obamacare or what we think of a new movie or the latest Supreme Court ruling. 

post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioskier View Post

 

Btw you really have no idea what Capitalism is and why it is successful. Capitalism is the complete opposite of looking out for oneself. The most successful people and businesses in a capitalistic society focus on helping as many people out as possible and that is how they profit. If they help themselves they keep there own money if they help millions they generate billions in revenue. I encourage you to really read more into it and know facts. Most capitalist are very nice and generous people.

 

Well idealistically that's how capitalism works kind of like how communism works out in everyone's favor on paper. The reality is that it's to easy to game the system. The principal of discounting money often encourages agent conflicts as well as businesses pushing of decisions. If something costs me $800 million to fix now or $1 billion in 5 years it's cheaper to push it off because that billion is cheaper then the $800 million now.  

 

I was trying to find some financial statements from any of the ski companies but they all appear to either be privately owned or part of a holding group.

 

I would imagine that the profit margin is much higher on skis then many suspect. I can't imagine material costs are much over 100, it's kinda like Apple selling old iphones and still making profits because the profit margins are so high.

post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

The price of boots didn't go UP radically as oil prices surged, so why would they drop? Look at the price of top end skis today compared to 20 years ago (I'll do it for you- 1995 Volkl Explosiv- $535, 2016 Volkl Mantra $749), now look at the price of a home now vs 20 years ago (1995- $155,000/ 2015 $366,000), or a Ford pickup (1995- $16,000/ 2015 $45,000)... 

 


You say the price of boots should not drop based on the price of the raw material but manufactures work on mark-up as do retailers although the manufactures also add what they think the market will tolerate.  It is understandable to look at the price of skis, I do not see the reason to compare them to Housing or to Trucks. 

 

You state  "The price of boots didn't go UP radically as oil prices surged"  I would love to see your data plotted on a line graph with one line for oil and one line for boots over 10 or 20 years.  It would make an interesting graph.

post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle-A View Post
 

You say the price of boots should not drop based on the price of the raw material but manufactures work on mark-up as do retailers although the manufactures also add what they think the market will tolerate.  It is understandable to look at the price of skis, I do not see the reason to compare them to Housing or to Trucks. 

 

You state  "The price of boots didn't go UP radically as oil prices surged"  I would love to see your data plotted on a line graph with one line for oil and one line for boots over 10 or 20 years.  It would make an interesting graph.

My data is my own foggy memory enhanced with Google Search to get actual data... a graph will not be forthcoming (from me, I have no interest in doing your homework).

 

According to Snow Country Magazine, in 1997 the Tecnica Explosion 8 ski boot had an MSRP of $645, the current equivalent model from Tecnica, the Mach1 130, has an MSRP of $785. That is as close to comparing oranges to oranges as I can get (I said "oranges" because both boots are orange in color, get it?). Anyhoo, cars and houses were compared to show the increase in cost of other items, cars and houses are really easy to get an accurate price for (and honestly, they have both skyrocketed in price, so it strengthens my point.. lies and statistics, ya know.) The cost of a barrel of oil in 1997 was $18.64 (again, thanks Google!) the cost of oil when this season's boots were being manufactured (last Spring/ early summer) was $64, so your graph would have one plot line that was pretty darn flat and one line that is about 3 times steeper up, the price of oil has increased roughly 3x faster than the price of ski boots. (so still no graph, but I pretty much did the homework anyway, you are welcome).

post #35 of 37
Regarding the oil. Think about it this way. How much oil do you really gets used in the boot material. Maybe 10gallons of crude? In otherwords how much do you really think the raw materials are worth. Like $5. So even if that doubled or halfed it makes no difference in the product price.

The costs (and margins) are all elsewhere
post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

 So even if that doubled or halfed it makes no difference in the product price.
 

Well, someone isn't a CFO

post #37 of 37
Lol I buried it in the currency exchange numbers
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