or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Transition Jr. to Adult skis?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Transition Jr. to Adult skis?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

I'm wondering if there is a general rule of thumb when kids transition form a Jr. ski to and adult ski. My son isn't a big kid, age 14, 5' 1", 95 lbs, and just short of an expert skier. Pretty much skis it all in Colorado, groomers, trees, powder, steep, a bit of park from time to time, everything up to double black, etc. Basically he and his friend hit the lift in the AM and we don't see them again until sweep. About the only thing at this point he doesn't ski is back country. Skis 35 to 45 days  a year. If I can get 2 years out of these ski I'll be a happy camper. Two general questions:

 

1. If getting new skis, am I at the point I should look at adult skis or still stick with Jr. skis?

2. Based on my description name a few skis I might take a look at. (Armada Edollo in an adult ski & Armada Tantrum in a Jr. ski are a couple I've looked, not stuck on Armada but saw them in a local shop).

 

Thanks

post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzn44 View Post
 

I'm wondering if there is a general rule of thumb when kids transition form a Jr. ski to and adult ski. My son isn't a big kid, age 14, 5' 1", 95 lbs, and just short of an expert skier. Pretty much skis it all in Colorado, groomers, trees, powder, steep, a bit of park from time to time, everything up to double black, etc. Basically he and his friend hit the lift in the AM and we don't see them again until sweep. About the only thing at this point he doesn't ski is back country. Skis 35 to 45 days  a year. If I can get 2 years out of these ski I'll be a happy camper. Two general questions:

 

1. If getting new skis, am I at the point I should look at adult skis or still stick with Jr. skis?

2. Based on my description name a few skis I might take a look at. (Armada Edollo in an adult ski & Armada Tantrum in a Jr. ski are a couple I've looked, not stuck on Armada but saw them in a local shop).

 

Thanks


From what I've read, it's a very individual decision with many factors.  Ski ability level, strength, and potential final ht/wt are the obvious major factors.

 

Perhaps @qcanoe would have a suggestion.

post #3 of 21

In a similar situation.  Have a son that's 13 5'6" 110 lbs.  The advice we've gotten is that we could go either way - kids or adult ski. I was leaning toward adult skis since he's only going to get taller and heavier. Now, I'm actually putting him on a pair of my wife's 160cm skis this year that aren't "girlie".  We'll see how that goes.  I told him if they don't work for him will get him some other skis.

post #4 of 21
Actually I have thought of putting him on non-girly looking women's skis. In the end that may be the best option.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by missin44 View Post

Actually I have thought of putting him on non-girly looking women's skis. In the end that may be the best option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzn44 View Post

 
I'm wondering if there is a general rule of thumb when kids transition form a Jr. ski to and adult ski. My son isn't a big kid, age 14, 5' 1", 95 lbs, and just short of an expert skier. Pretty much skis it all in Colorado, groomers, trees, powder, steep, a bit of park from time to time, everything up to double black, etc. Basically he and his friend hit the lift in the AM and we don't see them again until sweep. About the only thing at this point he doesn't ski is back country. Skis 35 to 45 days  a year. If I can get 2 years out of these ski I'll be a happy camper. Two general questions:

1. If getting new skis, am I at the point I should look at adult skis or still stick with Jr. skis?
2. Based on my description name a few skis I might take a look at. (Armada Edollo in an adult ski


From what I've read, it's a very individual decision with many factors.  Ski ability level, strength, and potential final ht/wt are the obvious major factors.

Perhaps @qcanoe
 would have a suggestion.

Got no magic answers. Women's ski may be good idea if the graphics fly. I would expect a big growth spurt is on the near horizon if not already underway. That may inform the choice a bit. I'd tend to lean toward an easy flexing adult ski. The Edollo you mentioned @158cm would probably be fine if he doesn't gain a lot of weight or height. (Its predecessor, the al dente, had a reputation for being very soft, so if he gains thirty pounds it might not work so well anymore.) When you're" fourteen looks matter, so don't saddle him with anything he doesn't think is cool.
post #6 of 21

If he or she is over 95 lbs they should be in an adult ski. If they boot size is over 22.5 they should be in an adult ski. Women's ski's have a binding set more forward to accomodate the center of mass which is different than men's. Don't put your male kid in a chick ski. When women reach over 120lbs a women's ski is really advantageous.

 

Experts have studied this. A women's ski is for a chick. Not a guy. Just like an adult ski is for an adult type and a child's ski is for a child. A rental ski can be for both depending on the type. 

 

If you are worried about saving money, save somewhere else because there are many experts that come before us that have paid the price for putting the wrong ski/ski boot on their kid to save costs. Kids break legs. When preteens break bones it is especially devistating to them as their bones are still growing.

post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSKI View Post
 

If he or she is over 95 lbs they should be in an adult ski. If they boot size is over 22.5 they should be in an adult ski. Women's ski's have a binding set more forward to accomodate the center of mass which is different than men's. Don't put your male kid in a chick ski. When women reach over 120lbs a women's ski is really advantageous.

 

Experts have studied this. A women's ski is for a chick. Not a guy. Just like an adult ski is for an adult type and a child's ski is for a child. A rental ski can be for both depending on the type. 

 

If you are worried about saving money, save somewhere else because there are many experts that come before us that have paid the price for putting the wrong ski/ski boot on their kid to save costs. Kids break legs. When preteens break bones it is especially devistating to them as their bones are still growing.

So what happens when a woman weighs less than 120 lbs?  My 100 lb wife has skied women's skis for 20 years.  She seems to do just fine.

 

Link to these expert studies?

post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post

Link to these expert studies?

Yup, where are these studies and more importantly who are these alleged experts? I become immediately suspicious whenever I hear or read "experts say."
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

So what happens when a woman weighs less than 120 lbs?  My 100 lb wife has skied women's skis for 20 years.  She seems to do just fine.

 

Link to these expert studies?

I know enough about this forum to know when I am invited to an argument. My opinions are just my opinions. You will not get push back from me. If you are trying to say I am wrong, maybe I am. But so what.

 

As you are well aware, there is much more that goes into a ski type than weight. That being said, it was my impression the the OP was asking about making a transition from one ski type to another. My thoughts about personal skis are the same as my thoughts about a stereo. With a stereo you listen you find a sound you like and then you buy it. The same is true for skis, at least for me. I take the opinions here under consideration, however, what is left is my opinion on the ski that I ski with the best.  

post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSKI View Post
 

I know enough about this forum to know when I am invited to an argument. My opinions are just my opinions. You will not get push back from me. If you are trying to say I am wrong, maybe I am. But so what.

 

As you are well aware, there is much more that goes into a ski type than weight. That being said, it was my impression the the OP was asking about making a transition from one ski type to another. My thoughts about personal skis are the same as my thoughts about a stereo. With a stereo you listen you find a sound you like and then you buy it. The same is true for skis, at least for me. I take the opinions here under consideration, however, what is left is my opinion on the ski that I ski with the best.  

 

Not trying to start and argument. Opinions are fine as long as you say that's what they are.  When you say "experts have studied this." I want to see the results of those studies.

 

Also, you said "when women reach over 120 lbs a women's ski is really advantageous."  What advantages are there? What happens when they don't weigh over 120 lbs (which describes a fair number of women skiers)?  Again, opinions are fine.  I'm not opposed to learning something new.

post #11 of 21

I think its obvious there are no "expert" studies.:nono:

post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzn44 View Post
 

I'm wondering if there is a general rule of thumb when kids transition form a Jr. ski to and adult ski. My son isn't a big kid, age 14, 5' 1", 95 lbs, and just short of an expert skier. Pretty much skis it all in Colorado, groomers, trees, powder, steep, a bit of park from time to time, everything up to double black, etc. Basically he and his friend hit the lift in the AM and we don't see them again until sweep. About the only thing at this point he doesn't ski is back country. Skis 35 to 45 days  a year. If I can get 2 years out of these ski I'll be a happy camper. Two general questions:

 

1. If getting new skis, am I at the point I should look at adult skis or still stick with Jr. skis?

2. Based on my description name a few skis I might take a look at. (Armada Edollo in an adult ski & Armada Tantrum in a Jr. ski are a couple I've looked, not stuck on Armada but saw them in a local shop).

 

Thanks


The main difference will be stiffness to accommodate adult weight.   If the adult ski is too stiff for his weight, it will be difficult for him to bend it into a tighter turn.  If he skis faster than most of the other skiers on the hill his momentum will compensate for a lack of mass on the slopes (I really don't have park experience to say how it will work out there), and that would lead to me choosing an adult ski in the smallest length it comes in.    If on the other hand he usually skis slower than average and would rather slowly hop turn his way down a steep with a good smooth runout than send it, stick to the jr ski for now.

 

Since I've never skied in Colorado snow, I'll let skiers who have suggest a ski for skiing there.

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

 

Not trying to start and argument. Opinions are fine as long as you say that's what they are.  When you say "experts have studied this." I want to see the results of those studies.

 

Also, you said "when women reach over 120 lbs a women's ski is really advantageous."  What advantages are there? What happens when they don't weigh over 120 lbs (which describes a fair number of women skiers)?  Again, opinions are fine.  I'm not opposed to learning something new.

 

I am suprised that posters as educated as you all, have not looked back on the posts in the sports medicine topics on this forum. I have 4 additional links here and more if you need them. But I am done with this topic. If my humble contribution at trying to help someone who asked a question,  is going to put me in a position of being challenged then I won't bother. 

 

http://backcountrymagazine.com/stories/womens-specific-female-focused-skis-necessity-preference/  At http://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_ne57/gtr_ne57_1_105.pdf http://ussa.org/alpine-programs/athletes/high-performance/sports-medicine/education-and-research Ghttp://www.skilikeawoman.com/docs_pdf/female_gear.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-much-do-sex-differences-matter-in-sports/2014/02/07/563b86a4-8ed9-11e3-b227-12a45d109e03_story.html

post #14 of 21

Well, those links, except tor the USSA link, make for some interesting reading, but not one of them supports the contention that women who weigh more than 120 pounds need women specific skis.  The third reference is 12 years old and is nothing more than a marketing tool.  The Back Country Magazine is interesting but the Washington Post article says nothing about alpine skiing at all.  Thanks a lot, dump some questionable references on us and then run away because your original assertions were challenged.:nono:

post #15 of 21

Good grief!

 

It doesn't take a genius to discern that skis desinged specifically for a woman's body and weight distribution is not appropriate for a guy.  ( I know at least two expert skiers who have studied this and came to the same conculsion:p).

 

That being said, a "woman's" FIS ski, i.e. meeting the criteria to be acceptable for a women to ski in FIS sanctioned races, is perfectly good for a guy to use free skiing.

@MMSKI don't let the posts of one or two members dissuade you from participating. 

post #16 of 21

But what if some of the women's skis happen to be men's skis with feminine top sheets?  Or what if some of the men's backcountry skis are actually just women's alpine skis with a tough guy graphics on the topsheet?  I get so confused.....

post #17 of 21

Lindsey Vonn skis on" men's" head skis.

post #18 of 21

The bottom-line unless someone has a gun to your head, you ski on what you ski best on. It doesn't matter. 

post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 

WOW, first thanks for the help. A lot of good info. As for the men's vs. women's ski, there are some that are designed for women, other only differ in the graphics. An example, the Armada TST & TSTw, only the top sheet differs. Further after emailing Armada, it turns out that the Tantrum (Jr. ski) is the same as the TST but only shorter. At this point I tend to lean toward an adult ski that is easy flexing. The Armada seems to be  good choice, though after a bit of surfing there are a few others that look interesting. I do understand it's possible to have a major growth spurt, which might make these a one year ski, but what do you do?

 

Anyway a post will soon follow with some options I have come up with.

 

Thanks

post #20 of 21
Quote:
If he or she is over 95 lbs they should be in an adult ski. If they boot size is over 22.5 they should be in an adult ski. Women's ski's have a binding set more forward to accomodate the center of mass which is different than men's. Don't put your male kid in a chick ski. When women reach over 120lbs a women's ski is really advantageous.

I never new this... it's very interesting. Although it kinda does make sense to me because if I had more of my mass in a DDD set of 20 lb boobs, my neutral position is going to be shoulders further back from the knee / hip. So to get my COM - which is sorta up in the torso area - at the right point on the ski (waist), you can either (a) spend hours and hours re-adjusting your stance, or (b) fudge the binding forward.

I wonder why nobody has make this kind of innovation for guys like me carrying around the 40 lb beer belly?

Also, I've flat out hear of cases where girls in their teens were getting breast reduction surgery to improve their performance at this-or-that athletic endeavour. (The case I'm aware of wasn't skiing, but still, you've got to shrug at what Title 9 and alluring sports scholarships have done to our image of girls in this country.)

Frankly, for the OP, I wouldn't put much credence in this stuff if your buying new - just have the shop that mounts your bindings use the "mens" mounting jig for your son (I actually never heard of a jig that had different men & women holes, but I used an actual manufacturer's jig once in my life... so this must just be for pre-mounted bindings?)

I sense that the main question your wrestling with is length and stiffness. Here's some guidance I recently saw online about length that would suggest for an all-mountain ski, you should be looking at skis sized between the nose and the adams-apple - probably 150cm's. You can still find a decent selection of men's skis in that length, and the price difference is nominal at best, so why mess around with women's skis?




I'd be wary of soft adult skis for an expert kid skier. Cheap skis have cheap cores - probably worse than a quality Jr. Racing ski.

My wife skis a 140 "adult" women's ski - it came with pre-mounted plates... I'll have to measure whether her bindings are forward of centerline. She is an A cup, so maybe that would explain why she can't carve on them - ha, ha. My daughter just moved to a 140 Jr. race ski. It's stiffer than my wife's ski, is full camber instead of rockered, has sintered rather than extruded bases, and is just a better ski that cost me $100 less than my wife's ski (although that money is probably going back into better quality racing bindings.)

So I would stick with Jr. Gear I think where you get more bang for your buck. Particular for the high level racing skis that a few shops will over-order on. If you want to go adult, just select as you would for any adult based "all mountain", going on what you want to get out of the ski - easy turn initiation? stability? turn radius? ... price?
post #21 of 21

I recommend people call these companies direct and talk to one of their technical staff about women vs men skis.  You'll find there are very few skis that are/were specifically built for women.  Typically, the length offered and top sheet are the only differences.  I know there are many that think women's skis are built different from men's but for most skis on the market that just isn't the case.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Transition Jr. to Adult skis?