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Helldorado vs. Patron.....to metal or not to metal?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I am trying to figure out after reading everything I could find on both nordica skis whether I should go Helldorado or Patron. I want to get a 2nd Ski to go along with my 88 waisted Salomon XDrive 8.8, which I use for east coast hills. The 2nd ski will be for out west daily drive resort inbounds and resort off piste for anything over 6 inches plus.

The question I have is if I am a heavy skier (5’7”, 220 lbs) do I automatically go Helldorado (metal) due to my weight or should I go with Patron (non-metal) since this will be more for soft snow uses?

I usually ski all the back bowls at Vail and all the peaks at Breck lift serviced, but that is the most I will do. No skinning, etc. so ski weight isn't an issue. Starting to get overwhelmed when I get big snow drops and the XDrive 8.8 can't handle it. Want to get a 108-115mm waist for soft snow. Directional skier. Was looking at a 177 Helldorado or Patron, but maybe could be talked into a 185 if that would be better. Open to all suggestions and all brands
post #2 of 15

Had a chance to ski both, 6'4 225lbs,found both to be a great ski, the Helldorado is a hard charging one dimensional ski, whereas the Patron is very much loves the turn, plays well n trees, but when needed can run in large sweeping carves.  Patron's are on the shopping list but since my Obesethed only get used 5-7 days a year they aren't due for replacement yet.

post #3 of 15

I like my Patrons so much that I went ahead and bought some Helldorados too. I think the Helldos are as good, but not necessarily better. They are more damp and they are heavier, but the Patrons rip too. What color do you like better? What kind of feel do you like from your skis. If you really like the metal feel, get Helldorados, if not, do the Patron. I don't think you can go wrong with the Patron.

post #4 of 15
I'm your size, 5'6", 220 lbs, and love the Patrons in soft snow. Using the 177 length. Some colleagues here at Breck use them as daily drivers. I find the width a bit tough on the legs when the snow is harder.
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAH View Post

Had a chance to ski both, 6'4 225lbs,found both to be a great ski, the Helldorado is a hard charging one dimensional ski, whereas the Patron is very much loves the turn, plays well n trees, but when needed can run in large sweeping carves.  Patron's are on the shopping list but since my Obesethed only get used 5-7 days a year they aren't due for replacement yet.

How did you find the float on the Helldos in the deep stuff? I have been on a Cochise in deep powder, which is the closest I have come to skiing a big mountain metal Ski. Wanted to know your thoughts on the Helldos performance in soft snow and prob soft skied over midday chop and clumps.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

I like my Patrons so much that I went ahead and bought some Helldorados too. I think the Helldos are as good, but not necessarily better. They are more damp and they are heavier, but the Patrons rip too. What color do you like better? What kind of feel do you like from your skis. If you really like the metal feel, get Helldorados, if not, do the Patron. I don't think you can go wrong with the Patron.
I'm only use to metal skis which is what I was always recommended due to weight. I imagine the feeling of maneuverability the all wood patrons offer especially in soft snow would be a completely different experience. Wanted to see if I wouldn't overwhelm the patrons because they are all wood and I'm hefty, and also if a metal Ski can be used as a powder Ski which really is my main question now that I think about it
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

I'm your size, 5'6", 220 lbs, and love the Patrons in soft snow. Using the 177 length. Some colleagues here at Breck use them as daily drivers. I find the width a bit tough on the legs when the snow is harder.

Thanks for your input that helps me quite a bit. Did you ever wish you got the 185 or felt you should have gone longer than the 177? Or do you find the 177 the perfect length for our size?
post #8 of 15

What metal usually does for a ski is make the ski torsion-ally stiffer (harder to twist) but not longitudinally stiffer. So skis with metal can work fine in powder.

 

My soft snow ski is a 180cm Blizzard Bonifide (I don't like real wide skis) with 2 layers of Ti metal and another layer at the binding mounting point. I'm 5'8" 210lbs and at 67 y.o., a more cautious skier than I used to be.

post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by madriversven View Post


Thanks for your input that helps me quite a bit. Did you ever wish you got the 185 or felt you should have gone longer than the 177? Or do you find the 177 the perfect length for our size?


After demoing both the Helldo and the Patron I purchased the Patron. The Helldo is fun but as previously said its a charger and can wear you out so the Patron is probably a better call.  But this is a ski where you should size up; there's lots of rocker and its soft. At your (our) weight, I have to think that 185 would be the better choice (I was on the 193 but I'm 6').  

post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by madriversven View Post

I am trying to figure out after reading everything I could find on both nordica skis whether I should go Helldorado or Patron. I want to get a 2nd Ski to go along with my 88 waisted Salomon XDrive 8.8, which I use for east coast hills. The 2nd ski will be for out west daily drive resort inbounds and resort off piste for anything over 6 inches plus.

The question I have is if I am a heavy skier (5’7”, 220 lbs) do I automatically go Helldorado (metal) due to my weight or should I go with Patron (non-metal) since this will be more for soft snow uses?

I usually ski all the back bowls at Vail and all the peaks at Breck lift serviced, but that is the most I will do. No skinning, etc. so ski weight isn't an issue. Starting to get overwhelmed when I get big snow drops and the XDrive 8.8 can't handle it. Want to get a 108-115mm waist for soft snow. Directional skier. Was looking at a 177 Helldorado or Patron, but maybe could be talked into a 185 if that would be better. Open to all suggestions and all brands

 

I am not a huge fan of super stiff skis for deeper snow: but you have 70lbs on me! With that said, I have skied some burly skis (BMX108 in 188cm, 1st generation) and they are mind-blowing in terms of stability in a wide open bowl. I can still remember skiing The Slot at Squaw on those, absolutely flying, completely in control. But those skis aren't a lot of fun in tighter spaces or bumps.  A softer bigger ski (whether it has metal or not) is really going to give you more short-turn ease, quickness in trees, bigger sweet spot.  Your priorities will determine what type of ski you want. For example, the new Kastle BMX105 HP and Stockli Stormrider 107 have metal, but are not burly in any sense of the word. I would gladly take either into the steep trees and feel totally on top of my game. But the Blizzard Cochise is a much stronger ski, more demanding, really likes to be open at bigger speeds, and is a different beast: I would love to have that ski on my feet in wide open situations, but not so much in tight trees or some sort of liftline bumps.  I wouldn't say it is strictly metal vs non-metal, but each ski will have it's overall character and speed it is happiest at. That old BMX108 (with metal) was happiest at 35mph+.  The Cochise isn't quite like that, but still 25mph+. The SR107 is more like 15-30mph for sweet spot, making it a more varied ski.  

post #11 of 15

If you are [planning to bring just one pair of skis on a trip I'd go with the metal. A soft ski, especially for a heavier skier, is going to be scary on firm groomers,  and metal works fine in soft snow for me--bonafides, sidestashes--and I'm 180#. I haven't skied either of the skis your talking about though.

post #12 of 15

I've tried both on well groomed trails and they both could carve well, not much difference between the 2 except a little more dampness for metal both not a lot more to my surprise... But at the same time, Patrons are not very light skis either so... Tried them also in some medium bumps and Patrons were more doable...I ended up with Patrons since I do a lot of thight trees.

You would definitly need the 185 as they ski very short and I don't find them to have a lot of float ( I,m on 185; 6' and 215 pounds)... At that lenght, they are still very easy to ski and when I get out of the trees and ski on icy slopes, they ski more than short...

Another Nordica ski that I really like: the El Capo... Really fun ski...

Another 2 skis that I could suggest: Ranger 106 and Fx104...

post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

If you are [planning to bring just one pair of skis on a trip I'd go with the metal. A soft ski, especially for a heavier skier, is going to be scary on firm groomers,  and metal works fine in soft snow for me--bonafides, sidestashes--and I'm 180#. I haven't skied either of the skis your talking about though.


To answer the OP, I didn't get a lot of the Helldo's is soft untracked, more west coast damp chop,  The Patron's and the Helldo's are dimensionally identical. so they will have the same float in untracked so one doesn't have an advantage.

 

For Oldgoat, I own a pair of Sidestashes, and I would say that the grip that the Patron exhibits is similar if better than the Stash even without the metal, the Bonafide would appear to have more edge grip due to the fact that it's about 13mm narrower and easier to bring up on edge.

post #14 of 15

Keep the Unleashed Hell in mind, too, while you are looking at the Patron.  Same dimensions but a lighter core.  

post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsknight1 View Post
 

Keep the Unleashed Hell in mind, too, while you are looking at the Patron.  Same dimensions but a lighter core.  


Good option but the Unleashed has not been made for 3 years now.

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