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# Ski technique - Page 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

So ???

When?

Not lifted in the very original montage I posted! HErr it is again for your viewing pleasure!

Old outside ski tip still in contact in  #4 New outside ski already slightly on BTE!  But yet again we are missing a fat least a frame in the sequence between 3 & 4.   Drawback of stills!

Also look how far forward his new outside leg has moved from 1  to 3

Whats missing here is the context that this is the setup for a stivot entry. If you want to use 8 year old Ligety montages, here is a more "normal" one from the same race.

So he is pushing off between 4 and 5? I think this comes down to semantics, when Ted says he is pushing it probably has the same meaning as having a lot of pressure, but I just don't see him extending the outside leg to end the turn in any clips or montages that has been provided. Ending with a lot of pressure, sure, but extending/pushing off? hardly. Between the two last frames he is already starting to exit the turn, but has he extended the outside?

Both skis are BTE in 6, but does it matter since they are not engaged?

The skis are engaged some time between 7 and 8

If you lift and tip the inside ski and pressure the outside ski, are you then pushing/pressuring the outside, or are you leading with the inside?

I think a lot of this thread is about different mind models but the skiing may not be so different.

To me, it sorta feels like 'climbing' to the new ski. When we climb a ladder we have vertcal separation of our feet (not horizontal) one leg is long and one is short. The long leg pushes while the other leg pulls us up. At some point in the climb the legs become the same length and begin to reverse in length and the pulling leg becomes the push while the old pushing leg becomes the pull. just pushing and extending one leg won't even get you up one rung of the ladder. We need to align to the bent leg on the higher rung to stand on it.
Jamt is right about the stivot entry. When I want to be early they all feel like a setup to a stivot entry. Once I'm set up I can float sideways, rotate and then tip. This could be very long and somewhat across the hill or short with a quick tip down the hill. So long as the setup was done early, I have my choice based on my intent or the next couple of gates down the course. Possibly what Ghost referred to earlier when he said " hold on a little longer to be early". If the setup wasn't there to begin with, well, then I'm probably late and going to have to do something different which very well may involve two bte.
Edited by Tip Ripply - 12/21/15 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

...

If you lift and tip the inside ski and pressure the outside ski, are you then pushing/pressuring the outside, or are you leading with the inside?

I think a lot of this thread is about different mind models but the skiing may not be so different.

Actually, the mechanics are very, very different.  Leading with the inside, for instance, is an identifiable movement pattern, and very different from Ligety is talking about.

Leading with the inside and then relying on "float" is again an even more different movement pattern, one which, with its reliance on float, is not only opposed to what the practical experience of racers is that keeping pressure is faster, but also one that, in terms of simple math, is slower the way that jumps are slower.

These are major points, and are part of why e.g. the drills commonly used by developing racers are what they are, and aren't what they aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

Actually, the mechanics are very, very different.  Leading with the inside, for instance, is an identifiable movement pattern, and very different from Ligety is talking about.

Leading with the inside and then relying on "float" is again an even more different movement pattern, one which, with its reliance on float, is not only opposed to what the practical experience of racers is that keeping pressure is faster, but also one that, in terms of simple math, is slower the way that jumps are slower.

These are major points, and are part of why e.g. the drills commonly used by developing racers are what they are, and aren't what they aren't.

In the montage above the CoM rises about 2 feet and down again in 1.2 seconds, including parts of the turning phase. Do you  have any idea how long that would take if you keep pressure in transition? It's pretty simple physics that if you stay heavy, i.e. provide and upwards force, the transition is much slower.

Further, there has been several empirical studies referenced which show float. Do you have some showing heavy transitions?

So your advice for a quick transition is push off and stay heavy. How do you push off and stay heavy at the same time?

Do you think Ligety is heavy in 6 and 7 above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

In the montage above the CoM rises about 2 feet and down again in 1.2 seconds, including parts of the turning phase. Do you  have any idea how long that would take if you keep pressure in transition? It's pretty simple physics that if you stay heavy, i.e. provide and upwards force, the transition is much slower.

Further, there has been several empirical studies referenced which show float. Do you have some showing heavy transitions?

So your advice for a quick transition is push off and stay heavy. How do you push off and stay heavy at the same time?

Do you think Ligety is heavy in 6 and 7 above?

You may want to think through the implications of what you're asserting.  You've basically said that not only WC skiers, but also for instance motocross riders are doing it all wrong.

Well, ok.

The reality is, Ligety isn't in the normal course leading with the inside ski, he does keep pressure longer, and among other things these are some of the keys to his success.  As for "getting light" being fast, we've known for over half a century that skis on snow are faster than skis in the air.  See where this is going?  See why motocross racers scrub height on jumps when they can?  See how that relates to staying low and pressured during transition?

Again, for those who want "poppy" transitions with a lot of "float," nothing worng with it.  It can be fun; in fact a halfpipe, when you think about it, is fun in part because of all the "floated" transitions it provides.  Just not what Ligety's talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

Not lifted in the very original montage I posted! HErr it is again for your viewing pleasure!

Old outside ski tip still in contact in  #4 New outside ski already slightly on BTE!  But yet again we are missing a fat least a frame in the sequence between 3 & 4.   Drawback of stills!

Also look how far forward his new outside leg has moved from 1  to 3

The old outside ski is clearly lifted in #4, just look at the shadow under the ski. Lift plus a closed ankle keeps the ski tip on the snow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

You may want to think through the implications of what you're asserting.  You've basically said that not only WC skiers, but also for instance motocross riders are doing it all wrong.

Well, ok.

The reality is, Ligety isn't in the normal course leading with the inside ski, he does keep pressure longer, and among other things these are some of the keys to his success.  As for "getting light" being fast, we've known for over half a century that skis on snow are faster than skis in the air.  See where this is going?  See why motocross racers scrub height on jumps when they can?  See how that relates to staying low and pressured during transition?

Again, for those who want "poppy" transitions with a lot of "float," nothing worng with it.  It can be fun; in fact a halfpipe, when you think about it, is fun in part because of all the "floated" transitions it provides.  Just not what Ligety's talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

Pressure means friction and friction is slow. There is no reason to be pressured during the transition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky

Pressure means friction and friction is slow. There is no reason to be pressured during the transition.

Why are we faster on the snow than in the air and why are heavier skiers faster in a straight run than lighter skiers?  YM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

In the montage above the CoM rises about 2 feet and down again in 1.2 seconds, including parts of the turning phase. Do you  have any idea how long that would take if you keep pressure in transition? It's pretty simple physics that if you stay heavy, i.e. provide and upwards force, the transition is much slower.

Further, there has been several empirical studies referenced which show float. Do you have some showing heavy transitions?

So your advice for a quick transition is push off and stay heavy. How do you push off and stay heavy at the same time?

Do you think Ligety is heavy in 6 and 7 above?

You may want to think through the implications of what you're asserting.  You've basically said that not only WC skiers, but also for instance motocross riders are doing it all wrong.

Well, ok.

The reality is, Ligety isn't in the normal course leading with the inside ski, he does keep pressure longer, and among other things these are some of the keys to his success.  As for "getting light" being fast, we've known for over half a century that skis on snow are faster than skis in the air.  See where this is going?  See why motocross racers scrub height on jumps when they can?  See how that relates to staying low and pressured during transition?

Again, for those who want "poppy" transitions with a lot of "float," nothing worng with it.  It can be fun; in fact a halfpipe, when you think about it, is fun in part because of all the "floated" transitions it provides.  Just not what Ligety's talking about.

Every now and then I get to see one of these...

Thank you CTKook, for enlightening us as to your level of comprehension of ski technique, equating a normal high performance "rebound" or "float" or "trampoline effect" with flying through the air in a downhill race or a motocross track. Not only are you contradicting Jamt (seriously?) but also asserting that BB doesn't know what the heck skiing is about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes

NECoach--although I think that "rebound" is another of those terms that is widely used, but even more widely misunderstood--and that it usually has much less to do with energy stored in and released from the skis than many people believe--skis certainly do have a "spring effect" when substantially bent. If you've ever bridged a couple bumps and bounced up and down on your skis, you've experienced just how "springy" they can be. Again, how that translates into what most people describe as "rebound" in turns is another story, but skis can act like springs.

What is "the old trampoline myth"?

For what it's worth, I think that trampolines can have great relevance to high-performance turns on skis. In many ways, they duplicate the sensations of very high-performance turns, especially short-radius turns, and help make sense of the timing and directionality of flexion-extension movements--including the need for "patience at turn transition."

Visualize:

...and compare:

Best regards,
Bob

I'm almost tempted to agree with you, just to mess with Bob and all, and state that Hirscher is indeed NOT "getting light" and is in effect very heavy in ALL the transitions above and that makes him faster!

Now. For the rest of us that have actually bent a ski... we can continue to believe our eyes when we see Ted light in transition, just two examples from the now famous NY video:

hey, free entertainment ! Even though devoid of usefulness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

You may want to think through the implications of what you're asserting.  You've basically said that not only WC skiers, but also for instance motocross riders are doing it all wrong.

Well, ok.

The reality is, Ligety isn't in the normal course leading with the inside ski, he does keep pressure longer, and among other things these are some of the keys to his success.  As for "getting light" being fast, we've known for over half a century that skis on snow are faster than skis in the air.  See where this is going?  See why motocross racers scrub height on jumps when they can?  See how that relates to staying low and pressured during transition?

Again, for those who want "poppy" transitions with a lot of "float," nothing worng with it.  It can be fun; in fact a halfpipe, when you think about it, is fun in part because of all the "floated" transitions it provides.  Just not what Ligety's talking about.

I see you forgot to answer my questions.

Anyway, I was not talking about a lot of float, just enough to make a quick transition. It is still way different than being heavy in transition.

Off course it is faster to stay low and heavy, only problem is that it is impossible except in the easy parts where you can tuck. If you try to do that in a hard section you will miss the next gate.

How do you stay hip-2-snow low in transition? By pushing off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

I'm all for staying low in transition. That has nothing to do with my claim that you need to be light and not push off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman

Why are we faster on the snow than in the air and why are heavier skiers faster in a straight run than lighter skiers?  YM

Yes it is faster momentarily, but with today's course sets and skis it is very few turns that you can actually do it. Also, a lot of the reason why you used to do it a bit more in the past was because it allowed a more direct line. But even then I wouldn't call it heavy in transition.

Here is a blast from the past when the radius of the GS skis were a bit more human. One of these guys is a U14 coach in my region, maybe I'll ask him why he is so light in transition when it is faster to be heavy the next time I see him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

I see you forgot to answer my questions.

Anyway, I was not talking about a lot of float, just enough to make a quick transition. It is still way different than being heavy in transition.

Off course it is faster to stay low and heavy, only problem is that it is impossible except in the easy parts where you can tuck. If you try to do that in a hard section you will miss the next gate.

How do you stay hip-2-snow low in transition? By pushing off?

I'm all for staying low in transition. That has nothing to do with my claim that you need to be light and not push off.

Yes it is faster momentarily, but with today's course sets and skis it is very few turns that you can actually do it. Also, a lot of the reason why you used to do it a bit more in the past was because it allowed a more direct line. But even then I wouldn't call it heavy in transition.

Here is a blast from the past when the radius of the GS skis were a bit more human. One of these guys is a U14 coach in my region, maybe I'll ask him why he is so light in transition when it is faster to be heavy the next time I see him.

Check out this article, third paragraph in particular, there's also some interesting descriptions of pushing on the old inside ski.

http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/Inside_Leg_Extension.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

Check out this article, third paragraph in particular, there's also some interesting descriptions of pushing on the old inside ski.

http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/Inside_Leg_Extension.html

ILE is a well known concept, but Atomicman was talking about pushing off with the downhill/outside.

Also ILE is not pushing "off"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

I see you forgot to answer my questions.

...

I'm all for staying low in transition. That has nothing to do with my claim that you need to be light and not push off.

Yes it is faster momentarily, but with today's course sets and skis it is very few turns that you can actually do it. Also, a lot of the reason why you used to do it a bit more in the past was because it allowed a more direct line. But even then I wouldn't call it heavy in transition.

...

Actually I did answer, and now you seem to be conceding the point and using a bit of distraction.  Yes, there are places where one can't stay in contact with the snow.  Racers likewise end up in the air over jumps.  These are facts.  What is also factual is that those who stay in the air on jumps the longest, as a factual matter, lose time relative to those who manage a jump better and don't stay up so long.  Likewise you can look at a given turn and tell, by who keeps pressure better, who's faster through that turn, assuming no other major points of difference.  And someone who intentionally, not because they have to, grooves and uses a nice leisurely "float" and doesn't establish pressure until the apex of the turn as their default movement pattern will be slow.

Which brings us to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

The thing with the head coach Atomicman refers to is, he's making a very simple and straightforward statement.  The reason it's so simple and straightforward is because he's plugged-in to ski racing, and talking in performance terms.

Even for freecarving, float isn't needed, at all.  Real simple drill:  on a mellow blue, take off one ski, stand on the remaining ski, roll it flat, take your time letting angles develop, rinse and repeat.  You can get overlapping cuts doing this on only one ski, and should be able to.  With all that implies in terms of the ski staying pressured and in contact with the snow to make that overlapping cut during transition.

I appreciate that there's a subgroup on here proselytizing for using "float" as a default.  That's fine, and to repeat, it can be a fun way to ski.  But, just as racers are not, as has been so clearly demonstrated, leading with their inside ski as a default, nor are they trying for a "float" as a default, any more than they are trying to maximize their air on jumps to stay "light" through the course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

ILE is a well known concept, but Atomicman was talking about pushing off with the downhill/outside.

Also ILE is not pushing "off"

In this well known concept according to the article, the skier avoids floating during the transition.  Floating is being light.  If you are not floating, you are not light.  You are the opposite of light.  What is the opposite of light?  This has some benefits described in the article as more control along with the benefits described by CTKook of being faster.

Also, in this well known concept pushing on the old inside ski makes perfect sense, because it is the ski with weight that can have an effect.  The turn is not started by the new inside ski, i.e. inside tipping, that is all.

Fast Garlands only work well with proper foot to foot pressure. If one only focus on pressuring the outside ski (light or lifted inside ski) it will be a very slooowww transition. With the proper pressure both skis flatten and the turn is a piece of cake from there. Without that, it's a can of worms...like the link to Coach Greg above. So, the push isn't out away, its down towards gravity straight into the earth and because we are skiing on a hill the vector only goes down so far until it becomes downhill. That's my feeling.
Edit: once I've found "down towards the earth" can I also add more down the hill? You bet! (Think atomic man). Is it always used or always necessary? No, but sometimes it might be faster depending on my intent or my setup in the gates.
Edited by Tip Ripply - 12/22/15 at 7:26am
So...no float here then eh? Must not be, because CT says so ;-)

I could find thousands of examples, but why bother? Those that can't "see" it, have obviously never experienced it.

zenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune

So...no float here then eh? Must not be, because CT says so ;-)

I could find thousands of examples, but why bother? Those that can't "see" it, have obviously never experienced it.

zenny

What is curious is that I'd addressed the use of unweighted transitions just a couple posts up,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

...  Yes, there are places where one can't stay in contact with the snow.  Racers likewise end up in the air over jumps.  These are facts.  What is also factual is that those who stay in the air on jumps the longest, as a factual matter, lose time relative to those who manage a jump better and don't stay up so long.  Likewise you can look at a given turn and tell, by who keeps pressure better, who's faster through that turn, assuming no other major points of difference.  And someone who intentionally, not because they have to, grooves and uses a nice leisurely "float" and doesn't establish pressure until the apex of the turn as their default movement pattern will be slow.

So, rather different from Zentune's claim that I am denying that racers will use unweighted transitions. Racers likewise will go off jumps.

What I did do was make a very simple, factual statement, that is in accord with the leading coaches and competitive practice,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

and helpful for those looking to build sound performance-oriented technique.

Please.  It's a matter of degree.  Skis are mostly unloaded during the flat "backseat looking" period.  There needs to be enough load on  the new outside ski edge to have it cut a groove, and that load needs to increase quickly in a quick turn.   Folks it's not that complicated.  And it's got nothing to do with proselytizing subgroups.  Don't get distracted from the truth (shown in the videos).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

What is curious is that I'd addressed the use of unweighted transitions just a couple posts up,

So, rather different from Zentune's claim that I am denying that racers will use unweighted transitions. Racers likewise will go off jumps.

What I did do was make a very simple, factual statement, that is in accord with the leading coaches and competitive practice,

and helpful for those looking to build sound performance-oriented technique.

Huh. So one may say racers "routinely" use float then? :-)

zenny
The ACTUAL truth here is that the use of float in transition is typically a TACTICAL choice (most of the time), not something that happens because they "can't stay in contact with the snow", as some would claim. That is absurd, sure they could remain in contact, though they may be late for the next gate...depending on the set of course.

zenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune

Huh. So one may say racers "routinely" use float then? :-)

zenny

What Zentune is jokingly referring to here is the grief he gave me, for years, over my very factual statement that racers, including Shiffrin for instance, routinely lift their new inside ski.

Well, perhaps that view was jarring to some, but it was factual.  Currently, one sort of freecarving-oriented movement pattern, using an unweighted transition to facilitate getting the skis onto to the new edges, has been sold as the latest in default WC technique.  Even at an intermediate level of skill, the unweighted transition termed "float" isn't needed to carve, as can be shown simply through on-snow drills, nor is it a movement pattern racers are trying for as a default.

What it faciltates is getting the skis around more quickly without using the edges of the ski to do so.  This is ok, and can be fine skiing.   But quite simply it is not what say Ligety is saying he's doing as a default, nor what leading coaches want their athletes to be focusing on as a default,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman

for reasons having to do with straightforward performance concerns.

One way to help highlight this is imagining a counterfactual.  Let say someone were to look at, say, Vonn here,

imagine how much different this run would have been if she had been focused on getting "float" in every turn and only establishing pressure around the apex.  Do you think her coaches were concerned by the lack of float?  Do you think they were advising her to get tall and take pressure off earlier and then be more patient before getting onto the new edges?  Obviously not, and the run would have been tremendously different were she to have focused on that.

Likewise here,

Think how different a default float-reliant movement pattern, with Maze looking to get tall early, float the transition, and lead with the inside ski, would be.  She's doing a number of things brilliantly, including drifting into and out of carves at will, that are subtle but incredibly hard to do with that ease.  But, some of those specific things, along with the actual carving she also does, would be disrupted by a float-centric approach.

Edited by CTKook - 12/22/15 at 8:46am
Ct, do you coach?

zenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

Actually I did answer, and now you seem to be conceding the point and using a bit of distraction.  Yes, there are places where one can't stay in contact with the snow.  Racers likewise end up in the air over jumps.  These are facts.  What is also factual is that those who stay in the air on jumps the longest, as a factual matter, lose time relative to those who manage a jump better and don't stay up so long.  Likewise you can look at a given turn and tell, by who keeps pressure better, who's faster through that turn, assuming no other major points of difference.  And someone who intentionally, not because they have to, grooves and uses a nice leisurely "float" and doesn't establish pressure until the apex of the turn as their default movement pattern will be slow.

Which brings us to:

The thing with the head coach Atomicman refers to is, he's making a very simple and straightforward statement.  The reason it's so simple and straightforward is because he's plugged-in to ski racing, and talking in performance terms.

Even for freecarving, float isn't needed, at all.  Real simple drill:  on a mellow blue, take off one ski, stand on the remaining ski, roll it flat, take your time letting angles develop, rinse and repeat.  You can get overlapping cuts doing this on only one ski, and should be able to.  With all that implies in terms of the ski staying pressured and in contact with the snow to make that overlapping cut during transition.

I appreciate that there's a subgroup on here proselytizing for using "float" as a default.  That's fine, and to repeat, it can be a fun way to ski.  But, just as racers are not, has been so clearly demonstrated, leading with their inside ski as a default, nor are they trying for a "float" as a default, any more than they are trying to maximize their air on jumps to stay "light" through the course.

When did this turn into a jump discussion? But since you are on the subject, its pretty funny because in a number of bump-threads you have claimed that you slow down by staying light/absorbing on the flat part and extending on the steep part, and now you claim the opposite. I'm glad it has finally sunk in.

Still waiting for some empirical data showing heavy non-float transitions in difficult GS.

It's pretty obvious that you have never done any high-g turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

In this well known concept according to the article, the skier avoids floating during the transition.  Floating is being light.  If you are not floating, you are not light.  You are the opposite of light.  What is the opposite of light?  This has some benefits described in the article as more control along with the benefits described by CTKook of being faster.

Also, in this well known concept pushing on the old inside ski makes perfect sense, because it is the ski with weight that can have an effect.  The turn is not started by the new inside ski, i.e. inside tipping, that is all.

ILE doesn't work the way Rick describes it in high-g turns.

As an engineer I'm sure you understand that if the CoM goes up and down rapidly, like it does in a transition after high edge angles, you MUST be light. Heavy in transition means the CoM is on the same height. Great for easy sections but that was not the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

Well, perhaps that view was jarring to some, but it was factual.  Currently, one sort of freecarving-oriented movement pattern, using an unweighted transition to facilitate getting the skis onto to the new edges, has been sold as the latest in default WC technique.  Even at an intermediate level of skill, the unweighted transition termed "float" isn't needed to carve, as can be shown simply through on-snow drills, nor is it a movement pattern racers are trying for as a default.

Here we go again, NOONE in this discussion is associated with P**S

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

Let say someone were to look at, say, Vonn here,

imagine how much different this run would have been if she had been focused on getting "float" in every turn and only establishing pressure around the apex.  Do you think her coaches were concerned by the lack of float?  Do you think they were advising her to get tall and take pressure off earlier and then be more patient before getting onto the new edges?  Obviously not, and the run would have been tremendously different were she to have focused on that.

What? There is float in every single transition, so what are you talking about? Getting tall??? Another thing you invented out of thin air. Focusing on pressure around apex?- get real.

Float is not a focus, it is the result of everything done right in a high-g turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

When did this turn into a jump discussion? But since you are on the subject, its pretty funny because in a number of bump-threads you have claimed that you slow down by staying light/absorbing on the flat part and extending on the steep part, and now you claim the opposite. I'm glad it has finally sunk in.

Still waiting for some empirical data showing heavy non-float transitions in difficult GS.

It's pretty obvious that you have never done any high-g turns.

It is curious that you bring up absorption, because obviously the fact that one can suck up speed through absorption proved out, not to mention being a real-world fact that not just bump skiers but for instance halfpipe users are well-aware of.  The Engineer was and is to be thanked for his articulation that he believes friction predominates in that case, and depending on the bumps and conditions those two means of speed control co-exist quite nicely in varying proportions in the bumps.

Here, we have another case where real world practice is clear.  Which is why its so easy to have a conversation with, for instance, leading coaches and athletes on the matter.  No one needs to do as those leading coaches and athletes do, freeskiing doesn't have rules in this regard and as noted repeatedly unweighted transitions can, in addition to making it easier to get the skis around, be fun and even quite aesthetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

It is curious that you bring up absorption, because obviously the fact that one can suck up speed through absorption proved out, not to mention being a real-world fact that not just bump skiers but for instance halfpipe users are well-aware of.  The Engineer was and is to be thanked for his articulation that he believes friction predominates in that case, and depending on the bumps and conditions those two means of speed control co-exist quite nicely in varying proportions in the bumps.

Here, we have another case where real world practice is clear.  Which is why its so easy to have a conversation with, for instance, leading coaches and athletes on the matter.  No one needs to do as those leading coaches and athletes do, freeskiing doesn't have rules in this regard and as noted repeatedly unweighted transitions can, in addition to making it easier to get the skis around, be fun and even quite aesthetic.

Yep, TheEngineer made a good point about that, but it did not support your theory of absorption/extension. In fact TheEngineer and I were in agreement towards the end of that thread, but I never saw you write anything along those lines.

Care to name a leading coach who claim that you should push off from the downhill ski and stay heavy through transition? And please, not the drivel from Phil when he coaches beginners.

Still waiting for a video with heavy transitions, two fails so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt

Yep, TheEngineer made a good point about that, but it did not support your theory of absorption/extension. ...

You seem to be asserting, again, that you can't pump for speed nor suck up speed through absoprtion?  Really?  You're going there again?

Good lord we're back to the pumping thing? For the sake of hmanity let's not go there.

Ctk, are you saying thkse aren't retraction transitions in lots of the photos shown?
Then the question remains when/where the techniques can be combined.
This drift started with claim the new outside ski is on bte before new inside is off bte or on lte. Definitely a bunch of evidence shown but the time scale is very short.
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