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fix my binding ignorance

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I have discovered through my experience with system bindings that I am sensitive to binding position on skis.  I like to be able to play around and try positions and even sometimes move the bindings depending on conditions.  But...these days, the system bindings are going away and demo bindings are not a long-term solution if you're buying new.  What bindings are positionally-adjustable -- or can be made so?  
Anyone got answers?
thanx.

post #2 of 23

Easy, get the atomic X-series binding.  Gives you on the hill adjustment to 7 different positions.. Alternatively use a pre-drilled race plate, such as Marker piston plate, which will let you position the bindings in a few different positions

post #3 of 23

There are a couple great PDF articles here...Lou is an Epic member too.

 

http://lous.ca/tech-articles/

 

Binding position in depth, Facts on Binding Position & Balance and Binding Position, Ski Canada convinced me long ago to abandon the marks that come with the skis AND the general consensus of riders on the same ski.  I start with BOF CRS (ball of foot @ center of running surface) and fine tune from there. Varies a bit depending on rocker etc.

 

I have no idea what is adjustable these days other than demo binders.


Edited by Snowfan - 11/18/15 at 1:11pm
post #4 of 23

"But...these days, the system bindings are going away"

 

And I am so happy.

 

:)

post #5 of 23

Marker Schizo bindings have 60 mm of travel adjustment.

post #6 of 23

More mechanically sound approach is a carving plate. You can move your bindings around without losing the rigidity that any kind of adjustable rig entails, and the ski gets a natural flex curve as a bonus. But not everyone's cuppa tea because hard to do on the fly.

 

Alternatively, Railflex allows on-slope adjustments just like Schizos. Once did a review here of how Goats skied at five different positions, changed the RF's each run with a stubby screwdriver I carry. Or just get a good demo binding, which nowadays can be very good indeed, especially the Head/Elan/Fischer/Kastle (Tyrolia) version. 

post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

More mechanically sound approach is a carving plate. You can move your bindings around without losing the rigidity that any kind of adjustable rig entails, and the ski gets a natural flex curve as a bonus. But not everyone's cuppa tea because hard to do on the fly.

 

Alternatively, Railflex allows on-slope adjustments just like Schizos. Once did a review here of how Goats skied at five different positions, changed the RF's each run with a stubby screwdriver I carry. Or just get a good demo binding, which nowadays can be very good indeed, especially the Head/Elan/Fischer/Kastle (Tyrolia) version. 


Agreed Beyond.  race plate/carving plate.  However, not discounting the Schizo but the Atomic "Variozone" gives you the most solid and easily adjustable set uo without compromising integrity and with greater rigidity than the rail flex and not having to get the screwdriver out.  Downside is it is a little heavier but not that much different from any other good race binding

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post
 

I have discovered through my experience with system bindings that I am sensitive to binding position on skis.  I like to be able to play around and try positions and even sometimes move the bindings depending on conditions. 

 

I'm with you, friend. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the manufacturer recommendation is, or what Tom, Dick or Harry think works best - it's what works for you! And as you mentioned it's nice to be able to tweak over time for conditions or whatever reason.

 

I love(d) Railflex but it's dead and gone. I liked the concept of the Blizzard IQ system from a few years ago...

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/blizzard-introduces-innovative-new-ski-binding-system

 

...but it was proprietary, plus they discontinued it after only a year or two. The good was that you mounted a binding on a plate that then fit into (built in) rails on the ski, and you had a good range of fore-aft placement of the plate on the rail. That design provided for having a plate with an alpine binding mounted, and a separate plate for a touring binding. Any bindings you wanted to use - nice!

 

I'd like to see that idea implemented more like Railflex, where the rails are a separate item to be installed on the ski, and then you have the plates the bindings mount on to mate with the rails. I don't mind a little lift for the binding, and if you look at the amount of lift on say a Fritschi or Duke it's really quite high anyway.

post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post

 

I'd like to see that idea implemented more like Railflex, where the rails are a separate item to be installed on the ski, and then you have the plates the bindings mount on to mate with the rails.

 

It WAS like that - on cheaper and womens' models.    Look closely at the next Firebird/Viva/Emocion you see at the thrift shop and you might just find it.

post #10 of 23

So....no one here likes   Tyrolia PowerRail?

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


Agreed Beyond.  race plate/carving plate.  However, not discounting the Schizo but the Atomic "Variozone" gives you the most solid and easily adjustable set uo without compromising integrity and with greater rigidity than the rail flex and not having to get the screwdriver out.  Downside is it is a little heavier but not that much different from any other good race binding


And we're both forgetting the VIST setups, which are metal plates, but the bindings can be moved without a screwdriver, I think. Cantuna, I like the Powerrails, obviously, but oddly few here actually use Tyrolia products unless they come with the skis. Not sure why; aren't they the world's largest binding company? Problems marketing in U.S. they caught from Head? 

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

So....no one here likes   Tyrolia PowerRail?

PRD's work well for general rec skiing with a narrower ski and are shimable if needed.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 


And we're both forgetting the VIST setups, which are metal plates, but the bindings can be moved without a screwdriver, I think.

 

You're thinking of the VIST Speedlock.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post. Cantuna, I like the Powerrails, obviously, but oddly few here actually use Tyrolia products unless they come with the skis. Not sure why; aren't they the world's largest binding company?

 

I have no idea why it is so;  Railflex was certainly popular enough.        Maybe it is the limited brake sizes (80, 88mm?)

post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post


And we're both forgetting the VIST setups, which are metal plates, but the bindings can be moved without a screwdriver, I think. Cantuna, I like the Powerrails, obviously, but oddly few here actually use Tyrolia products unless they come with the skis. Not sure why; aren't they the world's largest binding company? Problems marketing in U.S. they caught from Head? 

I have a PRD, a FF 16, an Attack 13, and a PR 14*.

The PR 14's in a box. Used then happily for a couple of seasons. Would prefer to have FF binding on my race skis, but they came with piston plates.
post #15 of 23
 
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post

 

I'd like to see that idea implemented more like Railflex, where the rails are a separate item to be installed on the ski, and then you have the plates the bindings mount on to mate with the rails. I don't mind a little lift for the binding, and if you look at the amount of lift on say a Fritschi or Duke it's really quite high anyway.

 

Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

It WAS like that - on cheaper and womens' models.    Look closely at the next Firebird/Viva/Emocion you see at the thrift shop and you might just find it.

 

Never have seen those. At any rate sounds like you don't think much of that implementation. Do you have any issues with the basic design idea? Seems like it would provide a lot of flexibility, and not lock the user in to one brand of binding.

 

 

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post

 

Never have seen those. At any rate sounds like you don't think much of that implementation. 


I don't know why you say that?   If any tone of voice crept through into what I posted, it was irritation at myself for not remembering which skis had which version of the IQ system.    Sorry.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post

 Do you have any issues with the basic design idea? Seems like it would provide a lot of flexibility, and not lock the user in to one brand of binding.

 

 

No, it's fine, and the proof is I still own two instances of the system.     When it first came out I was actually very excited about it, as being the closest I'd seen to date to the nordic NIS systems.. 

post #17 of 23

I'd look into the Tyrolia Attack (13) demos....

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

I don't know why you say that?   If any tone of voice crept through into what I posted, it was irritation at myself for not remembering which skis had which version of the IQ system.    Sorry. 

 

I just mis-read too much into your comment, took it to mean the design wasn't robust.  My bad

 
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
 

I'd look into the Tyrolia Attack (13) demos....

 

Er, on those the heel is adjustable, but the toe is a hard mount, right?

post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post
 

 

Er, on those the heel is adjustable, but the toe is a hard mount, right?


Depends on the year. Recent vintages have separate toe and heel adjustment.

 

http://www.untracked.com/p5284c81b52-16_tyrolia_attack_13_demo_freeride_ski_bindings.html

 

I linked to untracked.com 'cause I like 'em....

post #20 of 23

Well, that's a step in the right direction. Looks pretty similar to Griffon demos...

 

  http://www.powder7.com/Marker-Griffon-Demo-Ski-Bindings/sale/

 

Similar price too.   ;-)

post #21 of 23

Attacks click in easier. I'd expect the metal rails to be more solid in terms of force transmission (based on the non-demos). Not that I hate the griffons, but the Attacks are pretty nice...


Edited by spindrift - 11/19/15 at 10:06pm
post #22 of 23

The demo griffon toe also gets a bit wobbly after a while.

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 


And we're both forgetting the VIST setups, which are metal plates, but the bindings can be moved without a screwdriver, I think. Cantuna, I like the Powerrails, obviously, but oddly few here actually use Tyrolia products unless they come with the skis. Not sure why; aren't they the world's largest binding company? Problems marketing in U.S. they caught from Head? 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

You're thinking of the VIST Speedlock.

 

 

 

Vist Speedlock are the duck's nuts.  Have had them on all of my alpine skis for over six years.  And added bonus being that you only need one pair of bindings for each set of plated skis.

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