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EpicSki Team and ... - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

Really SMJ?  I thought better of you....

 

I dont recall seeing any anger expressed at Heather.  Plenty of healthy cynicism but that goes with the territory for any exec....:rolleyes

 

Certain people behaved like assholes (some sexist ones at that) toward her. Simple as that. Of course the trail has mostly been erased.

post #32 of 54

Trust, respect and loyalty hve to be earned. They should not be given freely. 

post #33 of 54
Yeah, but it works both ways.
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Yeah, but it works both ways.

 

It's definitely a two way street. But if one does not participate, there is no chance for all those endearing qualities to develop.

At I see it, she appears to be a bit thin skinned and offends easily. Not desirable qualities to have while running a forum on the internet.

post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

Trust, respect and loyalty hve to be earned. They should not be given freely. 

 

Misogyny and personal attacks shouldn't be given freely either. Don't forget that we had to clean up some of the stuff in the thread. She was fine with letting it ride by the way, it was (non-moderator) members of the community that were the most vehement in private communications that we do something about what was posted. 

post #36 of 54
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

 

...for now perhaps I should just bow out of both forums for a while.

 

Right now dealing with a dying pet, much more important and clearly clouding my ability to communicate.

 

No bowowing out in skiing.

 

Ouch. Sorry to hear about your pet.  I lost my dog 10 months ago, best dog ever...still hurts...but, of course, it heals when good memories dominate the pain of loss.  Do that deliberately when necessary. 

post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

 

I should add that Heather tried to get more involved but got a very cold if not hostile response when she tried to contribute. 

 

If she got a hostile reception it's probably down to the inordinately poorly worded first post that told the community about this whole thing and subsequent clamming up.  A "Mea Culpa" sorry I was pretty insensitive goes a long way.  That one hasn't been offered speaks to me of someone who follows the corporate legal line more than she cares about community.  Sorry just my take on it.  Doesn't mean she isn't a lovely person in real life.

post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post
 

 

If she got a hostile reception it's probably down to the inordinately poorly worded first post that told the community about this whole thing and subsequent clamming up.  A "Mea Culpa" sorry I was pretty insensitive goes a long way.  That one hasn't been offered speaks to me of someone who follows the corporate legal line more than she cares about community.  Sorry just my take on it.  Doesn't mean she isn't a lovely person in real life.


I'm just not seeing it. In the context of the real world, that is the kind of wording you get.

 

If folks here had issues, questions, or comments there was ample opportunity to approach that in an adult manner. What was flung at her was adolescent sexist snakiness. It had no logical connection to anything going on. 

 

I'm sure she does not need me to play "defender"  - but I do feel compelled to note that any poor behavior was not hers. And as I said elsewhere, she and the other "management" folks here were more patient than I'd have been in dealing with with that BS. 

post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

 

I should add that Heather tried to get more involved but got a very cold if not hostile response when she tried to contribute. It's a shame because OTS has some knowledgeable and dedicated skiers, but they have no desire to get involved posting here if they're treated with hostility just because they work for OTS in their day job.  It's a shame really, I was skimming OTS a bit the other day because I've never really paid much attention to it. It lacks the community aspect of Epic which is what I prefer. I'm the type that reads the comments on a story more than the story to get perspective. Even though OTS lacks that discussion aspect there is some great stuff there. For example I was reading this article about innovations in Ski Boot Tech the other day, it's got a level of research and depth that we haven't had in our articles in a few years (outside of the great stuff from @skiessentials recently). Perhaps one day they'll get more involved, but it'll only be when the community actually wants them to be because they're just like any other posters here. If the response is cold and unwelcoming, they won't have any more desire to post than anyone else. 


Really Tyler? Not true at all, and if she was "offended" in any way, I would question her ability to work in a social media type role. 

 

Come on dude, the claim of hostility just isn't objectively true.

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters View Post
 


Really Tyler? Not true at all, and if she was "offended" in any way, I would question her ability to work in a social media type role. 

 

Come on dude, the claim of hostility just isn't objectively true.

 

I don't know about exactly what happened, but there was at least 1 comment that got reported and moderated in the "Staffing changes" thread that were referred to as "...someone posting an asinine creepy comment with respect to Heather" (reference from Spindrift). So I don't know what they were since they've been deleted, but that at least sounds offensive and hostile to me. 

 

But yes, wading into a forum in the manner she has, does require some amount of thick skin (and patience and calm) as part of the job description, I'd think.

post #41 of 54

It should require a thick skin with respect to the topics at hand. Not so much due to sexist trollish asshattery.  The claim of hostility is absolutely true. The "come on dude" bit is classic deflection regarding less than civilized behavior. 

post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

 

I should add that Heather tried to get more involved but got a very cold if not hostile response when she tried to contribute. It's a shame because OTS has some knowledgeable and dedicated skiers, but they have no desire to get involved posting here if they're treated with hostility just because they work for OTS in their day job.  It's a shame really, I was skimming OTS a bit the other day because I've never really paid much attention to it. It lacks the community aspect of Epic which is what I prefer. I'm the type that reads the comments on a story more than the story to get perspective. Even though OTS lacks that discussion aspect there is some great stuff there. For example I was reading this article about innovations in Ski Boot Tech the other day, it's got a level of research and depth that we haven't had in our articles in a few years (outside of the great stuff from @skiessentials recently). Perhaps one day they'll get more involved, but it'll only be when the community actually wants them to be because they're just like any other posters here. If the response is cold and unwelcoming, they won't have any more desire to post than anyone else. 


Really Tyler? Not true at all, and if she was "offended" in any way, I would question her ability to work in a social media type role. 

 

Come on dude, the claim of hostility just isn't objectively true.

 

You're making assertions without having all the facts is all I will say. You can't see the half page of posts we removed (at the request of community members not Heather). 

post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

 

You're making assertions without having all the facts is all I will say. You can't see the half page of posts we removed (at the request of community members not Heather). 


Actually, I saw them as they were posted in real time, and I even quoted one of them.


If you work for an online publication, give your name and title on where you work, it's not hard to google "Heather" and "opensnow.com" and "vail resorts" and come up with a COMPLETELY public Linkedin page.

 

It's not hard. Try mine? Bet you can find it.

post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

 

You're making assertions without having all the facts is all I will say. You can't see the half page of posts we removed (at the request of community members not Heather). 


Actually, I saw them as they were posted in real time, and I even quoted one of them.


If you work for an online publication, give your name and title on where you work, it's not hard to google "Heather" and "opensnow.com" and "vail resorts" and come up with a COMPLETELY public Linkedin page.

 

It's not hard. Try mine? Bet you can find it.

 

That information was fine, it was the other comments. We just removed the whole train of comments. I'm not saying it was the worst thing ever to happen on Epic, it wasn't even close to that. Heck, we've had to contact the police at least once due to offline stuff, and nearly had to file a report for harassment last year. I was just answering the question on why she hasn't contributed more. Her initial response at trying to make any comments got a very cold response. I'm not saying given the announcement and the feelings involved that it was 100% unwarranted, I understand the strong emotional reaction. Having worked with Phil and Tricia closely over the last few years I appreciate more than most what they have done here behind the scenes. At the same time I'm sure you understand why someone who isn't obligated to post here wouldn't think it desirable to do so if the reaction from many is to attack the poster instead of discuss what they've posted. Read the responses in the beginning of the thread and the tone they took with her. 

post #45 of 54

Since Tyler put the EpicSki Team article in homepage rotation and now perhaps more people here than ever before can see my bio and picture and wonder, what the hell does he do around here? Well, not much since I was the first casualty of corporate downsizing.

 

I was the last "hire" before nolo sold the site to retire. Nolo had a unique way. I was hired as Resort Editor and given the responsibility to develop the Ambassadors program and that was what I was left to do, figure it out and find out how make it work. I was barely starting on this when the sale happened. Our resort pages were/are a mess. That's what happens when a bunch of tech challenged skiers try to build a website. The fix involved a lot of manual work to go to each page and making each fix line by line. That was enough to keep me busy just doing what amounts to website janitorial work let alone build a program that sought to find enthusiastic volunteers to represent their favorite ski resort here on Epic. I was on payroll for a year after the buy out. I did accept the head moderator job but I was unable to to do that due to medical issues and Rusty stepped up and has done a great job herding cats and I have no doubt that there are days he wished that I'd been able to take the job. Tyler maybe on an island in the Caribbean but do not doubt his commitment to the community. No one is making a full time living off of this site and the Pugs will tell you that. 

 

 

After that year Tricia was confronted with the corporate balance sheet and the need to cut expenses along with a request to drop our resort guides and direct traffic to OTS. I don't really know if that came from MNC/OTS/Vail Resort/ corporate overlords but it really didn't matter. I saw it coming and said so in the long, hand wringing, sorrow filled posts that followed the big corporate buy out. My attitude then as it is now is screw MNC/OTS/Vail. So what if all they want is our Epic name. As long as they let us do our thing, which for me was actually skiing with the folks I met here. I went to a few early gatherings. I started the Mid-Atlantic Gathering, I went to ESA and Eastern Tune Ups then life and family priorities made it difficult to continue participating and skiing much beyond my own region.

 

I had made a huge mistake. I made my wife a skier, we raised two skiers and now I had 4 addicts to support and a flat income. Then I did something really stupid. I left my job of 37 years and took my pension not to go live the life of a retired ski bum but to save my sanity. Well, one of the ski addicts is out of the house and the other will soon be independent too. Yes, I have been a member of this community that long. My children have grown up while I posted frivolous things, talked more hockey and Steelers football and politics than I have skiing because, well so many of you here know more about instruction, gear and travel than I do but if you want to post an unofficial guide or be an EpicSki ambassador look me up. I'm not going big on this like I did when the corporate overlords paid me but I volunteer my time to help out a little around here.

 

My experience tells me Heather backed out because a few folks here treated her a little shabby, like the latent maggot in some of us showed up and couldn't help asking for nude shots etc. I feel partly responsible for that because I was one of the first to offer scold instead of welcome. It tells me that she didn't want to fracture the community even more.

 

This place is ours until someone pulls the plug. We are free to make this community what we want, all you have to do is take the time and  be involved. That's what Tricia and Phil did. I consider them my friends and we have mutual friends all because of this site.  I'm a member of their site and I'll stay involved here too. I don't see this as us or them. I see growth, change and opportunity. Good luck PugSki, I'm with yunz guys but I've been a member of this community for so long I can't imagine leaving. I hope Tricia and Phil feel the same and continue here is some way but if their life takes them away, I know where to find them. 

post #46 of 54

Thank you for the kind words. Cat herder sounds so much better than "staff".

post #47 of 54

I almost hate to admit this but I totally missed the Heather thing.   I feel very similar to Sibhusky regarding Epic and although I feel that I am part of the community but have to admit since the ESA at Big Sky and the Gathering at JH I haven't been to any epic functions and haven't added a decent article or question in quite awhile.  Will have to correct that  on my part.  Remember doing quite a bit of work with GarryZ years ago on the Beginners Forum but most of what we did has disappeared over the years.   All things change especially any group of people.  

 

My inclusion in our old Code Three Race club changed, our ski the last line at Squaw changed, our group of instructors at Silver Mt. changed and our Lookout Gang changed. Two of my best friends and long time skiing partners  died in the past 2 year - change is inevitable.  That doesn't mean change is bad or good it is what it is.

 

Heres looking forward to the future of epic and of course the snow fall.

post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

Even though OTS lacks that discussion aspect there is some great stuff there. For example I was reading this article about innovations in Ski Boot Tech the other day, it's got a level of research and depth that we haven't had in our articles in a few years (outside of the great stuff from @skiessentials recently). Perhaps one day they'll get more involved, but it'll only be when the community actually wants them to be because they're just like any other posters here. If the response is cold and unwelcoming, they won't have any more desire to post than anyone else. 

Hey, Tyler, that article you showcase as a useful OTS content is mostly stuff taken from press-releases.  It is not based on any first-hand knowledge, does not talk about the actual materials used in any useful way, and definitely does not talk about the real-world problems.  It is, in fact, an industry advertisement, nothing more.  Anyone who has an even casual chat with the bootfitters, or first hand experience with any of these technologies would recognize that.  If you don't, then, sorry, you in over your head.  I am saying that with the best intentions, because believe it or not, I do care about the future of this site.  

post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post
 

 

I need to express my concern about any comments that can be viewed as knocking those who remain behind the scene at Epic. Tyler, Rusty, Sibhusky and marznc need to be positively reinforced for the work they are doing to pick up the pieces. They are victims just like the rest of the Epic posting community. Epic needs them very much to go forward. I can't help but wonder if Tyler leaves, who will keep the site up and running. Always appreciate those behind the scene. The big vacuum created by loosing new posting content creators and ski subject matter experts is not going to be filled easily or quickly or, perhaps, ever. Heather stated that there would be a new On The Snow presence, and, that's been unfulfilled. Shame on her!


I know, late to the party, but I have to ask: Were you being intentionally hypocritical or ironic here, or do you truly think the "community" should switch tacks from knocking the old guard to knee-jerk attacks on new members? 

 

Here's an idea: It's a f#$%in online ski forum, if you don't like it anymore, go get FREE stories, reviews and discussion elsewhere. Or, sit back, calm down and enjoy the ride. 

post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post
 

Hey, Tyler, that article you showcase as a useful OTS content is mostly stuff taken from press-releases.  It is not based on any first-hand knowledge, does not talk about the actual materials used in any useful way, and definitely does not talk about the real-world problems.  It is, in fact, an industry advertisement, nothing more.  Anyone who has an even casual chat with the bootfitters, or first hand experience with any of these technologies would recognize that.  If you don't, then, sorry, you in over your head.  I am saying that with the best intentions, because believe it or not, I do care about the future of this site.  


Don't think Tyler's in over his head at all. Maybe it's you, confusing the idea of an article and an in-depth review or "I disagree with that" with "that article is useless to everyone." Outside of the "must have" headline (anyone who has even a casual relationship with "reading" knows that headlines, especially Web headlines, are useless), the article presents information about new features in a level way, leaving the reader to decide whether those technologies are relevant to him/her and worth looking at more closely. It may not be a groundbreaking expose, but it's a decent short-form Web article. 

post #51 of 54
Joe- if you get your information from this sort of articles, be my guest, I wish you the best of luck. if that's your standard for a good internet article, again, good luck to you.
post #52 of 54

Yeah, because no one gets information about new technology and gear from short-form, quick-read Internet articles. 

 

Some of the biggest, most successful blogs and Web publications on the Internet just called to say you have no idea what you're talking about. 

post #53 of 54
Yes, right. Short informative articles and post is what Epic used to specialize in. Not anymore apparently, because the big blogs called. But, sure you are entitled to your own opinion, this is internet, everyone is free to talk out of his a$$. Myself included. As I said, best of luck to you.
post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Yes, right. Short informative articles and post is what Epic used to specialize in. Not anymore apparently, because the big blogs called. But, sure you are entitled to your own opinion, this is internet, everyone is free to talk out of his a$$. Myself included. As I said, best of luck to you.

 

Well, no one can call you anti-American. You take your freedom very seriously. 

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