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Waxing tools - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Flattening your iron is Jacques' thing. Most of us don't worry about it unless the iron is scraping on the metal edges.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


One step at a time.  Main thing is you are determined, so you will get there.

 

Jacques i should be able to find a cheap solution for brushes shouldn't i? We have a nylon brush for the grill (unused) although the fibres are very long and stiff. We also have an oval brush for cleaning shoes etc. (unused ofc.) with shorter and a little bit softer fibres, although they might be too soft. Shouldn't the oval brush do the job?

 

Alternatively i've looked at the combined brushes, but i imagine they are bullshit to work with, i just don't feel like dropping 3x18 USD for brushes alone.... :)


You don't now and that's fine.  Like I said, one step at a time.  You are now on the road of no return!  Be good!  :beercheer:

post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 

Hang on, are you sure the sole isn't designed to be curved? Taken from Toko's website:

 

The extra-strong aluminum pressure cast plate for ideal heat storage has a curved rhomboid structure that improves the distribution of the wax and compression.


Yes, a bit of concavity if fine, but as you saw with mine it was way too much!   Then make sure you are not waxing an edge high ski as well.

 

Iron flatness is important when you want to wax slow and good.  Wax impregnation is more about time then total heat.  More time, better.  Less time more heat....not as good at all.  You can get that at any ski shop!

post #34 of 58

For wax:  I would look at:

http://www.blue-tomato.com/en-GB/product/Toko-Backshop+Barwax+2+5kg-300376504-warm/  (looks like all-temp is available also)

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Yes, a bit of concavity if fine, but as you saw with mine it was way too much!   Then make sure you are not waxing an edge high ski as well.

 

Iron flatness is important when you want to wax slow and good.  Wax impregnation is more about time then total heat.  More time, better.  Less time more heat....not as good at all.  You can get that at any ski shop!

 

SInce you took the old one apart....  does the heating element only apply heat to the center of the plate?

post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanscrazydaisy View Post
 

For wax:  I would look at:

http://www.blue-tomato.com/en-GB/product/Toko-Backshop+Barwax+2+5kg-300376504-warm/  (looks like all-temp is available also)

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Yes, a bit of concavity if fine, but as you saw with mine it was way too much!   Then make sure you are not waxing an edge high ski as well.

 

Iron flatness is important when you want to wax slow and good.  Wax impregnation is more about time then total heat.  More time, better.  Less time more heat....not as good at all.  You can get that at any ski shop!

 

SInce you took the old one apart....  does the heating element only apply heat to the center of the plate?


I could not say.   I use a digital thermometer to read the heat temp. of the plate.  When I have done that, the temp. has been even across the whole plate.

I checked the iron for flatness hot and cold.  Seemed the same either way.

post #36 of 58

For what it's worth - I recently bought a Toko T8 iron and it was nice and flat out of the box. I had watched @Jacques video on iron tuning and was concerned but when checking mine for true was pleasantly surprised. Perhaps I got lucky, perhaps they've increased their quality control. Either way it's worth checking your iron to make sure it's in decent shape and if not, the video will help you fix it.

post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle93 View Post
 

For what it's worth - I recently bought a Toko T8 iron and it was nice and flat out of the box. I had watched @Jacques video on iron tuning and was concerned but when checking mine for true was pleasantly surprised. Perhaps I got lucky, perhaps they've increased their quality control. Either way it's worth checking your iron to make sure it's in decent shape and if not, the video will help you fix it.


There it is.  My first one had a thinner sole plate and it seemed to be a cast.  My second one had a thicker sole plate but appeared to be a molded or pressed or some other way of forming the plate.

 

My first one was much flatter than my second one.

 

There you go.  Can't hurt to check it out! 

post #38 of 58
Thread Starter 

Thanks, at the moment i just can't wait for the coupon code to hit my mailbox, so i can start waxing the Racetiger babies before the season. The only thing i'm still thinking about is what the heck i do without a wise when i need to brush thoroughly, but after watching some DIY videos i think i have the solution. Some work benches and some anti-glide plastic.... Guess that's as good as it gets (pretty equal to cheaper vises anyways).

post #39 of 58

If I were you I'd nuke the LF wax,  You don't need fluoro and the issues that come along with it.  If you're worried about snow below -4C, get some blue hydrocarbon wax.

post #40 of 58
Put the savings towards the vise.
post #41 of 58
Thread Starter 

Definitely thought about sacking the LF... At first i wanted to get a smaller brick of 40g for special occasions, but then i realised that it cost almost 60% of a 120g brick, so not really worth it....

 

Probably going with the red racing brick that is hydrocarbon biodegradeable. 180 grams 18 USD and +2 to -12 C. http://www.swixsport.com/Products/Wax-Tuning/Glider/Base-Prep-Universal/UR8-Red-Bio-Racing-Wax-180g. Should i get something else (cheaper maybe, although this seems quite cheap to me) for cleaning out the base (by hot scraping some dirt away)? And for storage use? My own thought so far is that the 180g brick will do ?

post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 

Thanks, at the moment i just can't wait for the coupon code to hit my mailbox, so i can start waxing the Racetiger babies before the season. The only thing i'm still thinking about is what the heck i do without a wise when i need to brush thoroughly, but after watching some DIY videos i think i have the solution. Some work benches and some anti-glide plastic.... Guess that's as good as it gets (pretty equal to cheaper vises anyways).


Eventually you will want a three point vice.  One step at a time.  Until then what you are doing will beat nothing by a mile!  Maybe find a third support for the center of the skis.  All that flexing makes everything harder.

post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 

Definitely thought about sacking the LF... At first i wanted to get a smaller brick of 40g for special occasions, but then i realised that it cost almost 60% of a 120g brick, so not really worth it....

 

Probably going with the red racing brick that is hydrocarbon biodegradeable. 180 grams 18 USD and +2 to -12 C. http://www.swixsport.com/Products/Wax-Tuning/Glider/Base-Prep-Universal/UR8-Red-Bio-Racing-Wax-180g. Should i get something else (cheaper maybe, although this seems quite cheap to me) for cleaning out the base (by hot scraping some dirt away)? And for storage use? My own thought so far is that the 180g brick will do ?


Really, I have found Swix Glide Wax Cleaner to be superior to hot scraping.  Sure some may argue, but it does not dry a base at all.  Many don't hot scrape correctly anyway.  For it to work you need a super soft wax as it must be liquid from tip to tail for the scrape.  Nothing floats to the top!  It's the wave of liquid that catches the junk and moves it off.  Really though it's a waste of wax.  The wax I use at it's lowest cost is 48 dollars for 400 grams.
 

Here, check this out and don't even go the hot scrape method.  It is VERY important to clean the ski base prior to any waxing however you do it.  If you skip that, you wax in pollutants and dirt at a micro level and the base becomes slow.  BTW I fixed my squeaky floor!  It was the Hot Box door on the floor.  Some wax there did the trick!

 

post #44 of 58
Thread Starter 

Will watch it when i have time tomorrow, but what i hear you say is no hot waxing?? Shouldn't i just get a cheap chunk of warm wax that will stay fluid untill it's scraped off? Is hot scraping any harder than that?

post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 

Will watch it when i have time tomorrow, but what i hear you say is no hot waxing?? Shouldn't i just get a cheap chunk of warm wax that will stay fluid untill it's scraped off? Is hot scraping any harder than that?


Yes, it's much harder and messier.  Whichever way you choose, just remember to clean the bases good before waxing,  Even if it's just a good brass brushing is better than nothing.

 

Take care now!

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post

Will watch it when i have time tomorrow, but what i hear you say is no hot waxing?? Shouldn't i just get a cheap chunk of warm wax that will stay fluid untill it's scraped off? Is hot scraping any harder than that?

I just use red wax to hot scrape. No point in buying yet another product. Wax, warm with iron, scraping behind the iron, more wax, run iron with scraper following again, more wax, another pass. Further passes depend on what is coming off.
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post

Will watch it when i have time tomorrow, but what i hear you say is no hot waxing?? Shouldn't i just get a cheap chunk of warm wax that will stay fluid untill it's scraped off? Is hot scraping any harder than that?

I just use red wax to hot scrape. No point in buying yet another product. Wax, warm with iron, scraping behind the iron, more wax, run iron with scraper following again, more wax, another pass. Further passes depend on what is coming off.


You just like to work a lot!   Scraping behind the iron.....that's a new one.  How many arms and hands do you have? 

 

Okay, mount a scraper behind an iron.  Could be the next big selling item.  Wax makers will love you!

post #48 of 58
It's totally easy, Jacques. Warm the whole length of the ski with the wax, then use one hand for the iron, one for the following scraper.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

It's totally easy, Jacques. Warm the whole length of the ski with the wax, then use one hand for the iron, one for the following scraper.


Actually not a bad idea there.  Keep a liquid wave in motion.  I'd need four arms though!  :popcorn

post #50 of 58

I'm not going to read all the replies, just give you mine, after likely more than a thousand spent in tools and wax, used over a couple of years.

 

You need a vise - you could build one from 2x4s - I have seen designs here: just rubber on top to hold the ski for waxing and a slit to keep the skis edge up for sharpening.

 

Tools for edges: one rough file, one fine chrome file and one 200 diamond stone (moonflex, no BS). One 3 degree fixed edge guide

Use the rough file the first time or when you can't get it sharp with the fine file anymore.

Every 2-3 days: use the fine file, one pass then the diamond two-three passes

Done. After you start appreciating a sharp edge, you'll do it more often => see the wine part.

 

Tools for waxing: iron 40-50$, all temp wax: either Hertel Supersauce or Toko LF pink shop wax, thick scraper, drywall screen to sharpen the scraper, brass brush for cleaning before waxing and stiff nylon for after scraping.

Every day or 2: brass brush crap out of base. Iron. Wax into base. scrape. Brush twice. Ski it.

After you start appreciating a sliding ski, you'll do it more often => get more wine.

 

Wine. Lots of it.

 

Did I miss something? Yeah - 150 sandpaper for the topsheet: you know you'll bang the skis together: use the sandpaper and remove or smooth out all the nicks on the edge of the topsheet.

Oh, and sharp is more important than waxed. If you ski ice or hard snow often.

 

And wine. Lots of it.

 

cheers

post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post

Will watch it when i have time tomorrow, but what i hear you say is no hot waxing?? Shouldn't i just get a cheap chunk of warm wax that will stay fluid untill it's scraped off? Is hot scraping any harder than that?

I just use red wax to hot scrape. No point in buying yet another product. Wax, warm with iron, scraping behind the iron, more wax, run iron with scraper following again, more wax, another pass. Further passes depend on what is coming off.


same here. I heat up some skis until they decamber - I've seen that somewhere but it's quite freaky...

 

I think though that you should not scrape when the wax is molten - I think it pulls crap better if just cools a bit and hangs on to the other layers underneath - so I keep the scraper behind the iron far enough for the wax to not be liquid.

post #52 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

I'm not going to read all the replies, just give you mine, after likely more than a thousand spent in tools and wax, used over a couple of years.

 

You need a vise - you could build one from 2x4s - I have seen designs here: just rubber on top to hold the ski for waxing and a slit to keep the skis edge up for sharpening.

 

Tools for edges: one rough file, one fine chrome file and one 200 diamond stone (moonflex, no BS). One 3 degree fixed edge guide

Use the rough file the first time or when you can't get it sharp with the fine file anymore.

Every 2-3 days: use the fine file, one pass then the diamond two-three passes

Done. After you start appreciating a sharp edge, you'll do it more often => see the wine part.

 

Tools for waxing: iron 40-50$, all temp wax: either Hertel Supersauce or Toko LF pink shop wax, thick scraper, drywall screen to sharpen the scraper, brass brush for cleaning before waxing and stiff nylon for after scraping.

Every day or 2: brass brush crap out of base. Iron. Wax into base. scrape. Brush twice. Ski it.

After you start appreciating a sliding ski, you'll do it more often => get more wine.

 

Wine. Lots of it.

 

Did I miss something? Yeah - 150 sandpaper for the topsheet: you know you'll bang the skis together: use the sandpaper and remove or smooth out all the nicks on the edge of the topsheet.

Oh, and sharp is more important than waxed. If you ski ice or hard snow often.

 

And wine. Lots of it.

 

cheers

 

Thanks for tuning in, i've pretty much come to a conclusion.

 

For now i'll start with waxing, since edgework is too much effort and too expensive compared to how many few days i get to ski this year and the upcoming year due to studies. Won't hit much more than 20 im afraid.

 

For waxing i've selected a Toko T8, a 5mm scraper, a brass and a nylon brush and just gotta pick the wax. I'm pretty much set on either Swix UR8 or CH6-7, just hard to tell the difference really. I live in Europe, so many of the brands you talk about aren't available to me, but a UR8 180 gram brick goes for 16-17 USD or so, so i guess i'll just get one of them and use it for both hot scraping and general waxing. Temp goes from +2 to -12 which i think is fine, although it might be a tiny bit too warm for the alps, so i might get a brick for colder temps aswell.

 

So apart from a very small decision regarding wax i believe i'm pretty much ready to go!

 

Shops will have to do my edges, but if they don't know shit about angles and if they refuse to not touch my base edges i'll run away, with my skis! 

 

Again, thanks for ur 2 cents!

post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

I'm not going to read all the replies, just give you mine, after likely more than a thousand spent in tools and wax, used over a couple of years.

 

You need a vise - you could build one from 2x4s - I have seen designs here: just rubber on top to hold the ski for waxing and a slit to keep the skis edge up for sharpening.

 

Tools for edges: one rough file, one fine chrome file and one 200 diamond stone (moonflex, no BS). One 3 degree fixed edge guide

Use the rough file the first time or when you can't get it sharp with the fine file anymore.

Every 2-3 days: use the fine file, one pass then the diamond two-three passes

Done. After you start appreciating a sharp edge, you'll do it more often => see the wine part.

 

Tools for waxing: iron 40-50$, all temp wax: either Hertel Supersauce or Toko LF pink shop wax, thick scraper, drywall screen to sharpen the scraper, brass brush for cleaning before waxing and stiff nylon for after scraping.

Every day or 2: brass brush crap out of base. Iron. Wax into base. scrape. Brush twice. Ski it.

After you start appreciating a sliding ski, you'll do it more often => get more wine.

 

Wine. Lots of it.

 

Did I miss something? Yeah - 150 sandpaper for the topsheet: you know you'll bang the skis together: use the sandpaper and remove or smooth out all the nicks on the edge of the topsheet.

Oh, and sharp is more important than waxed. If you ski ice or hard snow often.

 

And wine. Lots of it.

 

cheers

 

Thanks for tuning in, i've pretty much come to a conclusion.

 

For now i'll start with waxing, since edgework is too much effort and too expensive compared to how many few days i get to ski this year and the upcoming year due to studies. Won't hit much more than 20 im afraid.

 

For waxing i've selected a Toko T8, a 5mm scraper, a brass and a nylon brush and just gotta pick the wax. I'm pretty much set on either Swix UR8 or CH6-7, just hard to tell the difference really. I live in Europe, so many of the brands you talk about aren't available to me, but a UR8 180 gram brick goes for 16-17 USD or so, so i guess i'll just get one of them and use it for both hot scraping and general waxing. Temp goes from +2 to -12 which i think is fine, although it might be a tiny bit too warm for the alps, so i might get a brick for colder temps aswell.

 

So apart from a very small decision regarding wax i believe i'm pretty much ready to go!

 

Shops will have to do my edges, but if they don't know shit about angles and if they refuse to not touch my base edges i'll run away, with my skis! 

 

Again, thanks for ur 2 cents!


Go for the Dominator Zoom.  Graphite or Regular.   Here you go.   eurosales@dominatorwax.com    Email them there!  Oh no...wait that's tech support!   I guess they don't have a distribution over there!   You would have to get it shipped from Japan or USA I guess.

post #54 of 58
Thread Starter 

Shit, everyone talks about this wax, didn't know about the availability in Europe. Thanks!

post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post
 

Shit, everyone talks about this wax, didn't know about the availability in Europe. Thanks!


Well, they had that email address, but I'm not sure.  You could ask at that address though.

post #56 of 58
For a one wax does all reasonably well, Hertel is the way to go. High end racing well different story.

BTW Razie's comment about edges icon14.gif
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

For a one wax does all reasonably well, Hertel is the way to go. High end racing well different story.

BTW Razie's comment about edges icon14.gif

 

He's in Europe.   Hertel is about as common there as Datawax or Skigo are here. 

post #58 of 58

if you don't have a vice or good setup, i suggest to use the fiberlene method to remove the bulk of excess wax.   

This is where you have fiberlene or equivilant lint-free type paper in between the iron and the ski during the final few swipes to smoothly leave just a very uniform thin layer of wax on, and push all the excess wax off to be absorbed by the paper or picked up in your next pass

 

I just received a block of holmenkol today and noticed it actually had an icon of this procedure on the package (2nd picture)

 

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