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Colorado tread laws for 2015 season: boom or bust? - Page 5

post #121 of 129

In 16 years of driving a 4wd truck with mostly very light at or all season tires, I've pulled over 30 cars out of a snow bank or ditch and maybe 4 or 5 of those cars had snow tires and at least 1 had studded snows.  I've never gotten stuck and never hit anything.  I've been 10 miles up dirt road/4wd trail and had it snow 3 feet in a week of elk hunting and drove right out with snow up to the tops of my tires.  I have chains for the truck and have only used them once to pull a 30 foot class A RV 2 miles up a dirt road from an elk camp when it snowed 2 feet on us.  It was a steep climb so the chains came in handy to get us and keep us moving.  The first time you can do all that in a 2wd drive car....I'll switch:D.

 

For the last 5 years our other vehicle is an AWD minivan with Blizzaks in the winter and it's a tractor in the snow.  I'm a big fan of snow tires but given the choice between snows and 4wd....I'll take 4wd every time.  I just put new tires on my truck and went with a M+S rated AT tire.   Should suit me just fine...we'll see next week:snowfall

post #122 of 129

So what your saying is, from your random sample 25 out of 30 stuck in the ditch cars do not have snow tires.

 

Seems like snow tires are a better plan.

 

AND

 

The lose nut behind the wheel is a more critical factor.  :D

post #123 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

So what your saying is, from your random sample 25 out of 30 stuck in the ditch cars do not have snow tires.

 

Seems like snow tires are a better plan.

 

AND

 

The lose nut behind the wheel is a more critical factor.  :D

 

 

I agree...... I was just saying for me that I prefer a 4wd truck to any 2wd vehicle with any tires.  Note I also have snows on my AWD minivan. 

 

I gave up a long time ago trying to worry about/fix the stupidity of the average human I just work on me and mine.........life has gotten much more relaxed for me since then

post #124 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

So what your saying is, from your random sample 25 out of 30 stuck in the ditch cars do not have snow tires.

 

Seems like snow tires are a better plan.

 

Not saying snow tires are a bad idea, because they are, but this math doesn't exactly make that case, if it's accurate.

 

I'd think 25 out of 30 cars don't have snow tires, period. So if that same proportion is stuck in the ditch, snow tires aren't providing an advantage. I wonder if snow tires give a false sense of security? Even with snow tires, you have to be careful. 

post #125 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

^^^ your videos aren't working.  Six videos on this page (scroll down).

http://www.apa.ca/tire_wintertireratings.asp

 

Hmmm... embedding videos doesn't seem to be working.  They are just showing up as images.

 

Here's the video with winter vs. all-season tires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERtK8q2PxGg

 

And, winter vs. all-season vs. summer tires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dk1oaTTX8Y

 

Another winter vs. all-season vs. summer tires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wTg0l3_wI

post #126 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

So what your saying is, from your random sample 25 out of 30 stuck in the ditch cars do not have snow tires.

 

Seems like snow tires are a better plan.

 

Not saying snow tires are a bad idea, because they are, but this math doesn't exactly make that case, if it's accurate.

 

I'd think 25 out of 30 cars don't have snow tires, period. So if that same proportion is stuck in the ditch, snow tires aren't providing an advantage. I wonder if snow tires give a false sense of security? Even with snow tires, you have to be careful. 


I hear you.  I use the same argument to justify my speeding; speeders are underrepresented in accidents.

 

It's most often not the limits of you or your tires that make you crash; it's your failure to respect those limits.   Still nobody's perfect, and it's good to have a safety factor due to better tires.

post #127 of 129
I can say the same thing about snow tires that I say about 4WD. The only thing they're good for is getting stuck in a harder place to get out of. Risk compensation is what drives it. People think the "safety device" makes them invincible. We've had this argument in a helmet thread, or two, or three, or four, heck, most of them.

For a brief while I had a '94 Ford Explorer, with all-season tires. I used it twice to go to Copper on snowy days. It worked fine. I drove it the same way I would have driven a 2WD car. Accelerate slowly, don't go so fast you can't stop or slow down easily, etc. When I saw other 4WDs off in the median, (and some had better rubber than I) I knew they were driving way over their heads, because of how deeply they'd buried them off the road.

Shortly after that the transmission imploded and I got rid of it. Fortunately, it didn't cost me anything to begin with. My daughter planned to give it to her brother when he came back from college, but it didn't last that long, so he was better off not getting it anyway.
post #128 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post


I agree...... I was just saying for me that I prefer a 4wd truck to any 2wd vehicle with any tires.  Note I also have snows on my AWD minivan. 

I gave up a long time ago trying to worry about/fix the stupidity of the average human I just work on me and mine.........life has gotten much more relaxed for me since then

Cars and trucks usually aren't tested together, one reason being they essentially don't share an entire class of tire - the all terrain.

Nobody talks about "summer" truck tires, and despite the tire manufacturers' efforts, they mostly don't talk about truck "winter" tires, either.

That's why the smarter tire companies are just going ahead and admitting that a good all terrain easily satisfies the winter tire standard and getting them certified with the mountain snowflake.

In that regard, 4wd and a good all terrain is so much better than really any car on any tire in a full mix of conditions, including deep snow, that they don't belong in the same conversation.

The paradox is that super performance winter tires on high powered cars is inspiring a lot of aggressive winter driving in the typical plowed conditions where those platforms perform best.

I think it is funny to see anti-SUV people hauling ass in low fuel economy vehicles in dangerous conditions given that was the knock on SUVs in the first place. Same driver, new excuse.
post #129 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Schuss View Post
 

"HB15-1173 specifies that between Nov. 1 and May 15 passenger vehicles traveling between Morrison and Dotsero on I-70 'must have adequate tread depth on their tires or carry chains or other traction devices.'" 

 

Apparently fines of up to $500 can be issued if you're the one responsible for a pile-up and your tread is less than 1/8 of an inch. Did anyone spin out on I-70 and receive a ticket last season? While I'm sure everyone in the state would love to have a new set of snow tires, it's just not possible for some people, money wise. I don't think this will stop anyone from driving to the mountains with a crap set of tires--especially college kids living off of Totino's and PBR. 

 

Seems like another way to snag money from people who can't afford it in the first place. Personally, I see more reckless driving from the armored tanks (see Suburbans and Tahoe's with oversized tires and grill guards bombing in the left lane) than the scared to death group of kids up from Texas in the Honda Civic.

 

Bad drivers cause the delays in my opinion. I'd rather have a set of balding tires than a lack of common sense when driving into the mountains. Grumble grumble....

 

Turn on some relaxing music, proceed to the right lane and chill out for crying out loud. Can't wait for the I-70 madness to ensue. It's truly a mental game: patience, unbridled optimism and a little masochism for good measure. I-70 here I come.

On the whole, I agree. Where we diverge is with the affordability part. Say someone claims they can't afford even $60 for chains and drives up anyway. A day ticket anywhere in Summit or Eagle county will cost them more than chains. If they get in a crash, you have the cost of emergency response, time and fuel costs for everyone stuck behind the accident, possible injuries, transportation to the hospital and clean up costs. $60 up front could save a lot of money, time and maybe even hospitalization. Not to mention the mental anguish of everyone sitting in stopped traffic when it's pounding snow and you can't get to the hill. Just a different angle on it. We do have an enormous deficiency in common sense that is blatantly obvious when traveling I-70 in the winter. I read somewhere once that "all gridlock is caused by a single automobile driver". After years of observation, I can't really argue with that. It usually ends up being true. 

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