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What's In This Wax?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

What do you think is in this wax?  I have never seen anything like it.  Although I mention Gallium wax, I am pretty sure it's not that, even though I have never used or seen the stuff.

 

I came to the conclusion it must be remelted wax from scrapings out of a ski shop where grinding particles were heavily mixed with the collected scrapings.  What do you think?

 

After good scraping and brushing all I could see with my eyes was gone. 

 

Short 3 minute video.

post #2 of 21
Where'd the ski come from? These are a friend's skis?
post #3 of 21

Molybdenum disulfide powder.    Probably sourced from a gun shop.

 

 

There was once a silver Toko wax with magnesium in it.     The easy way to test if that's it would be to set some of the shavings on fire and look for the flares.


Edited by cantunamunch - 11/3/15 at 12:56pm
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Where'd the ski come from? These are a friend's skis?


Yes, I will ask him what's up.  Thought I'd get some guesses here.  Fact is he may not know what's up too.  Or just may not want to fess up.

post #5 of 21
Maybe they were laying around, gathering dust for eight weeks and he just slapped wax on top of that without brushing.
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

Molybdenum disulfide powder.    Probably sourced from a gun shop.

 

 

There was once a silver Toko wax with magnesium in it.     The easy way to test if that's it would be to set some of the shavings on fire and look for the flares.


I seriously doubt both of those.  Why would any maker put in such large particles of either for a ski wax? 

post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Maybe they were laying around, gathering dust for eight weeks and he just slapped wax on top of that without brushing.


No way Sib.  The particles were in the wax and not on the wax.  Not sure how anyone could wax in particles that large even if somehow they just settled on the skis in storage.  Surely anyone would at least have wiped the ski off if so.

 

I think he did it with a friend or had the friend do it (storage wax). 

post #8 of 21
Well, in my scenario, they're UNDER the wax until the iron hits.
post #9 of 21
It's toko silver, I have 2 unused nos bars. Mystery solved.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

Molybdenum disulfide powder.    Probably sourced from a gun shop.

 

 

There was once a silver Toko wax with magnesium in it.     The easy way to test if that's it would be to set some of the shavings on fire and look for the flares.


I seriously doubt both of those.  Why would any maker put in such large particles of either for a ski wax? 


Well, how about understanding or testing before doubting?

 

Option 1 was a home brew MoS 'underlay'.    There is no 'maker'.       

 

Option 2 is testable.   Scrape some and set it on fire.   If it flares -  Toko silver.

And you're not looking at indvidual particles.   You're looking at *clumps* of particles that didn't disperse well in the wax, and that coagulated further when that wax job was badly ironed.

This happens not just with metal or MoS2 but also with graphite, BN(hex), WS2, pretty much any solid powder lubricant additive i can think of except Teflon.     

Insufficient iron heat -> clumped additive.
Insufficient dispersion -> clumped additive.  


 


Edited by cantunamunch - 11/3/15 at 4:31pm
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

It's toko silver, I have 2 unused nos bars. Mystery solved.


Chenzo, I have never used Toko Silver.  I know it's not made anymore if I am correct.  Really though.....does it have particles that large in it?  The wax itself appeared white (clear) thus one could see the particles quite well.  Can you melt some of that onto anything and reproduce what we saw in the video?  Doesn't have to be on a ski, just to see it as we saw it on the edge of the ski in the video. 

I just got a hold of the guy and he was under the impression it was a soft spring wax.  My scraping of the wax tell me different.  The wax was very hard.  I know wax gets old and "hard" "chalky", but this was only like five months old.  Seems strange that a soft wax could get that hard in such a short amount of time.

Really appreciate your input on this one.  Thanks!

post #12 of 21
Silver additive wax is fairly common, swix and holmenkol had it in the past, and it is still used these days. I think swix still may use it in their Nordic line, and hwk offers it in a powder overlay afaik. I will see a handful of skis every year with a silver storage wax, people tend to use old or cheap wax for summerization.

The wax I have is from my nos vintage collection. There's no chance in hell I am melting a brand new bar. Haha. But you can pick some up yourself on eBay and do your own comparison. Cheers.
post #13 of 21
And what, pray tell, would be the point of putting metal filings/powder/whatever into the ski's structure? It sounded cool?
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Silver additive wax is fairly common, swix and holmenkol had it in the past, and it is still used these days. I think swix still may use it in their Nordic line, and hwk offers it in a powder overlay afaik. I will see a handful of skis every year with a silver storage wax, people tend to use old or cheap wax for summerization.

The wax I have is from my nos vintage collection. There's no chance in hell I am melting a brand new bar. Haha. But you can pick some up yourself on eBay and do your own comparison. Cheers.


Was the Toko Silver a rub on wax or was it also supposed to be ironed.  My impression was that it was designed as a rub on.  If it was just for rubbing then I could see them putting in huge particles of magnesium in it as they would just wear away as the wax was rubbed on not leaving big particles on the ski.

 

The guy told me he thought the wax was silver, but he is not sure what it was.  He said he would talk to his friend who did it to get more info and get back to me.  Have not heard back from him again yet.

 

 I get it, you don't want to melt any of those vintage bars.  I saw one piece on Ebay, but I have no reason to want it.  

 

Much thanks Chenzo

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

And what, pray tell, would be the point of putting metal filings/powder/whatever into the ski's structure? It sounded cool?


It worked.   It added 'structure' to skis that didn't have any (which was close to all of them except the woodies, and it was even better for those).   It worked around particle transfer charging decades before Kodak and Xerox engineers described the phenomenon.    And it sort of made a difference in the wet.

 


Powders (with other compositions) are still used today except we now do them as overlays - more price effective and less clumping.

post #16 of 21
So the point was to add grit to the ski to add speed it up?
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

So the point was to add grit to the ski to add speed it up?


I think we're in danger of being overly teleological here.      It worked and it sold.   

I am sure they came up with some explanation for 'why'.    But only after they had devised it by trying everything under the sun.    We now know that their theories couldn't have been complete enough to accurately predict experimental results.

 

 

post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

It's toko silver, I have 2 unused nos bars. Mystery solved.


@Chenzo You win the prize!  I did find out it was Toko Silver.   The guys friend still had a bunch of it!   I told him not to use it as storage wax anymore.  Better than nothing, but soft hydrocarbon is much better.  The one they used was very hard!  Not sure if Silver came in different hardness grades.

post #19 of 21
Ya it's supposed to be really good spring wax though. Cold am, warm pm deal.
Afaik it only came in "3". 1 and 2 were red and yellow I think.
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Ya it's supposed to be really good spring wax though. Cold am, warm pm deal.
Afaik it only came in "3". 1 and 2 were red and yellow I think.


Thanks.  I remember buying three packs of Toko.  I was young then!

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Ya it's supposed to be really good spring wax though. Cold am, warm pm deal.
Afaik it only came in "3". 1 and 2 were red and yellow I think.


The Holmenkol glacier wax also has VERY large particles in it. I never knew what they were but the one bar I had worked well for spring skiing as well as on a summer glacier.

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