Originally Posted by bounceswoosh
Originally Posted by Bob Lee
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh
I foresee this thread spiraling until it gets locked ...
How many long time women posters do you suppose there are at TGR - two? four?
More than that. How many would you suppose, based on your extensive experience at TGR?
If you can't see the difference between an insult about choosing to ski at Breck vs. an insult based on gender, sexual orientation, or skin color, you're a pretty special kind of throwback. Is that the kind of insult you mean that's prevalent on epic?
That's just okay. But check out the one I just threw at you above.
But if you think all I've been insulted about is skiing at Breck...then the kindest thing I can say is that you haven't been paying attention. But I'll also say that you are being judgemental about things that perhaps it would be better not to be.
That's not so much an insult as an accurate observation - I was being snarky by proposing a very tiny number of women on TGR, and you responded by saying I don't know what I'm talking about. That's fine - I'd still like to know, really. I don't think the percentage of women contributors at TGR is very high.
If I've been insulted in lots of terrible ways and just not noticed it here, I guess that's okay with me. I don't think it's the case, but stranger things have happened. I don't even understand your last sentence - are you saying that I shouldn't be offended by slurs against women, gays, blacks and hispanics? *boggle* If that's not what you're saying, then I honestly don't know what you are trying to convey.
The reason it is so upsetting that TGR has these ... themes is precisely because, without the crap, I would have access to a wealth of information. Of course, then you have to wonder, if that sort of behavior were banned, would it actually be a friendly-to-me site with all the same content, or would the contributors of the useful info lose interest and stop posting? They could choose to post on epic, but no, they choose to build up TGR. So they must like it over there, or at least be able to hold their noses and deal. Maybe this is sort of like an argument about whether, in sports, it's better for a referee to maintain absolute authority, or better for teams to have "enforcers" who punish the other team when they cross a line. Me, I'm in favor of the referee approach.
I just can't understand how the passive aggressive snarking and other mild forms of misbehavior here on epic hold a candle to the stuff on TGR. There may very well be a history of epic (hah, pun!) dustups that I'm forgetting or to which I've never been exposed. I'm familiar with the dynamic where everything is fine until you get onto a moderator or in-group's bad side, and maybe that's what you're describing, but again, I haven't experienced or observed it (and that kind of thing can be hard to see until you or a trusted friend go through it).
Look I'm sorry you had a rough time at TGR. I'm a regular there and I didn't see it. But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. You didn't see me getting insulted here, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I'm just tired of the smug attitude here about TGR, because, IME, this place has some serious drawbacks.
I'm not going to count women posters to TGR for you, in large part because WTF does it matter? So there may be more women posting here, and if that's what makes it better for you, that's great. But I'm not on the internet for women, and I find the people at TGR to be, in a surprisingly large part, honest, trustworthy, forthright, helpful, well informed, and intelligent. And really good art skiing. There are glaring exceptions but that's no reflection on Epic, except when people here say otherwise.
My whole point has been that the Epic forum can be, and often is, pretty damn bad in its own right, and shouldn't be too critical of TGR.