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Tecnica Cochise with Tech Soles and Griffon Bindings

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Anyone have experience with Tecnica Cochise boots and the tech sole inserts?

 

Wondering if they will work with Griffon bindings

 

Thanks

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post
 

Anyone have experience with Tecnica Cochise boots and the tech sole inserts?

 

Wondering if they will work with Griffon bindings

 

Thanks

 

They will not release properly, this is why Marker produced the Lord. The Lord & Salomon Warden can adjust for the height of the Tech sole. If you already have the Griffon you can get the DIN soles for the Cochise. 


Edited by Philpug - 10/16/15 at 3:13pm
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post

 
Anyone have experience with Tecnica Cochise boots and the tech sole inserts?

Wondering if they will work with Griffon bindings

Thanks

They will not release properly, this is why Marker produced the Warden. The Warden can adjust for the height of the Tech sole. If you already have the Griffon you can get the DIN soles for the Cochise. 

Salomon makes the Warden, Marker makes the Lord SP. Same concept - both adjust to accept and release AT soles.

http://www.salomon.com/us/product/warden-mnc-13-1.html
http://markerusa.com/binding/lord-s-p/
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 

Got it, thanks

 

What makes the Lord +$100 over the Warden? 

post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post
 

Got it, thanks

 

What makes the Lord +$100 over the Warden? 

 

I don't know. Maybe someone else does.

post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post
 

Got it, thanks

 

What makes the Lord +$100 over the Warden? 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post
 

Got it, thanks

 

What makes the Lord +$100 over the Warden? 

 

I don't know. Maybe someone else does.

Sorry for combining the Marker & Salomon options, LOL. As far as what makes the Lord more expensive? The only thing I can think of is that the Lord is more expensive to produce with the two piece toe design.  Other design difference is that the Warden AFD adjusts downward to accommodate the thicker sole, the top of the Lord's toe adjusts upward. The Warded will give you the same binding ramp no matter what soil design. Look/Rossi will be offering a WTR option for this coming season but they are not designed to accommodate a true Tech sole. 

post #7 of 26
For touring you want the Salomon Guardian. The Warden is not a touring binding. The Tyrolia/Head Adrenalin is very similar to the Guardian nad less expensive. It is a very good binding and available in either 13 or 16 DIN. If you want something lighter, try the Tyrolia Ambition, or really light try the Ambition Carbon, both available only in 12 DIN.

If you don't care about touring, the Head/Tyrolia AAAtack 13 is a good option, very similar to the Warden but less expensive, works the same way the Warden does for adjusting to a tech sole.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

For touring you want the Salomon Guardian.

Well, if the OP has tech soles then I'd have to say that for touring s/he'd want a tech binding. No?
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Well, if the OP has tech soles then I'd have to say that for touring s/he'd want a tech binding. No?
Not always. We sold about as many Guardians last year as Dynafit bindings and they were mostly sold to people who had regular apline boots with tech soles. The Guardian and similar bindings are more for people who only sometimes hike. Setting yourself up with Dynafit bindings and AT boots is not inexpensive.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Well, if the OP has tech soles then I'd have to say that for touring s/he'd want a tech binding. No?

Not always. We sold about as many Guardians last year as Dynafit bindings and they were mostly sold to people who had regular apline boots with tech soles. The Guardian and similar bindings are more for people who only sometimes hike. Setting yourself up with Dynafit bindings and AT boots is not inexpensive.

'Regular apline (sic) boots with tech soles'? I suppose I'm a little out of touch, but back in the day, it didn't seem to me that regular alpine boots had tech soles. I guess if you consider the Cochise et al to be 'regular alpine boots' (with walk mode and changeable sole blocks) then OK. In any event, I'll agree that Wardens, Lord SPs, and AAAttack are not touring bindings. But it didn't seem that was what the OP was looking for. And I'll argue all day that tech bindings are much, much better for touring than frames.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

 

 

Sorry for combining the Marker & Salomon options, LOL. As far as what makes the Lord more expensive? The only thing I can think of is that the Lord is more expensive to produce with the two piece toe design.  Other design difference is that the Warden AFD adjusts downward to accommodate the thicker sole, the top of the Lord's toe adjusts upward. The Warded will give you the same binding ramp no matter what soil design. Look/Rossi will be offering a WTR option for this coming season but they are not designed to accommodate a true Tech sole. 


The new Tecnica Cochise Light comes with Tech soles for Tech binding use. I am assuming the will work with the new Rossi Dual binding. Am I wrong?

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

I'll agree that Wardens, Lord SPs, and AAAttack are not touring bindings. But it didn't seem that was what the OP was looking for. And I'll argue all day that tech bindings are much, much better for touring than frames.
I wasn't sure what he was really looking for. I agree that tech bindings are better for touring but if someone is only going to need that functionality occasionally, does it make sense to spend $400 or more on a tech binding plus the cost of another pair of skis and AT boots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post


The new Tecnica Cochise Light comes with Tech soles for Tech binding use. I am assuming the will work with the new Rossi Dual binding. Am I wrong?

How would anyone know since the binding is not yet designed and on the market?
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post
 

Anyone have experience with Tecnica Cochise boots and the tech sole inserts?

 

Wondering if they will work with Griffon bindings

 

Thanks

 

Buy the DIN blocks for the boots and then they will work with any alpine binding.  Gather you have no interest in an AT binding.

 

I have the Cochise and they are too heavy and have insufficient articulation to use as and AT boot.  Mine are used solely now as an alpine boot.

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 
How would anyone know since the binding is not yet designed and on the market?

Huh? The Rossi Duel binding is on the market. It has a WTR and din setting. The website says it works with regular soles and WTR soles, it doesn't specifically say tech soles. In a post above Phil says it doesn't work with a true tech sole. I'm trying to understand what the WTR setting is if not tech,

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

I wasn't sure what he was really looking for. I agree that tech bindings are better for touring but if someone is only going to need that functionality occasionally, does it make sense to spend $400 or more on a tech binding plus the cost of another pair of skis and AT boots?
How would anyone know since the binding is not yet designed and on the market?

I've had an FKS 14 Duo binding in my hands. They exist. They're real. And the toe piece looks slr for clunky. smile.gif

(The Tyrolia adrenalin is what I think they mean further up the page)
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 
How would anyone know since the binding is not yet designed and on the market?

Huh? The Rossi Duel binding is on the market. It has a WTR and din setting. The website says it works with regular soles and WTR soles, it doesn't specifically say tech soles. In a post above Phil says it doesn't work with a true tech sole. I'm trying to understand what the WTR setting is if not tech,

WTR is a sole that is slightly contoured with a bit bore grip on the bottom for walking. It NEEDS to be in at least a WTR compatible binding otherwise it could jam and not relate properly. They are currently an option on some Langes, Salomon and Atomic boots and coincidently these companies also offer WTR bindings. Lange WTR Video. The design is fine if you are using a WTR compatible binding but what if you have a quiver or another ski with a traditional toe, I am not sure if another incompatible sole design is good. 

post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

WTR is a sole that is slightly contoured with a bit bore grip on the bottom for walking. It NEEDS to be in at least a WTR compatible binding otherwise it could jam and not relate properly. They are currently an option on some Langes, Salomon and Atomic boots and coincidently these companies also offer WTR bindings. Lange WTR Video. The design is fine if you are using a WTR compatible binding but what if you have a quiver or another ski with a traditional toe, I am not sure if another incompatible sole design is good. 
So, with a Tech sole, Salomon Warden is ok for both Tech and DIN and Rossi Duel is not?
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

WTR is a sole that is slightly contoured with a bit bore grip on the bottom for walking. It NEEDS to be in at least a WTR compatible binding otherwise it could jam and not relate properly. They are currently an option on some Langes, Salomon and Atomic boots and coincidently these companies also offer WTR bindings. Lange WTR Video. The design is fine if you are using a WTR compatible binding but what if you have a quiver or another ski with a traditional toe, I am not sure if another incompatible sole design is good. 
So, with a Tech sole, Salomon Warden is ok for both Tech and DIN and Rossi Duel is not?

Correct. Note the binding toe height will need to be adjusted between the two. 

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxman View Post
 

 

Buy the DIN blocks for the boots and then they will work with any alpine binding.  Gather you have no interest in an AT binding.

 

I have the Cochise and they are too heavy and have insufficient articulation to use as and AT boot.  Mine are used solely now as an alpine boot.


I have the Cochise 130 since last winter (stiffest version, orange) and I use it both in resorts and for touring up to say 1200m elevation - with touring inserts and Marker Tour binding on Nordica Steadfast.

I'm  pretty happy and I do not find the boot too heavy nor lacking articulation.

For longer tours I use mostly a "proper" touring shoe, a Dynafit zZero 4, with Dynafit TLT Vertical binding on either Atomic Aspect or Drifter skis - mostly the latter.

(As for the shoe I tried the newer One but eventually I got back to a zZero4)

 

My Cochise came with alpine insert and I had to buy the touring inserts separately.

My alpine inserts are unused.

As I understand, all other versions of the Cochise are sold with touring inserts.

post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
I have the Cochise 120 with tech inserts and use them with Dynafit bindings

My boots came with alpine inserts. Now trying to decide between Griffons and Wardens for new alpine skis, minimizing the number of times I may need to soles around
post #21 of 26
Why a warden if you're considering a Griffon?
post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
Seems like with the Griffon I would have to put the alpine inserts back on

Wardens would allow me to ski with the tech soles, no swap needed
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post

Seems like with the Griffon I would have to put the alpine inserts back on

Wardens would allow me to ski with the tech soles, no swap needed

So why not a Warden or Marker Lord then? Or an FKS 14 duo?
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xckeefe View Post

Seems like with the Griffon I would have to put the alpine inserts back on

Wardens would allow me to ski with the tech soles, no swap needed

So why not a Warden or Marker Lord then? Or an FKS 14 duo?

FKS Duo does not accept Tech Soles, just WTR. 

post #25 of 26
I was under the impression that the Guardian did not work with Cochise tech soles. I purchased Dukes because of that fact.

I have both tech and DIN soles for my Cochise. I prefer to use the tech soles, because they have better grip for wandering around the resort. I ski s916 when I'm not on Dukes. 916s and STH16s will adjust to fit the tech soles, but may not release laterally properly. I have not had any release issues on them.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian View Post

I was under the impression that the Guardian did not work with Cochise tech soles. I purchased Dukes because of that fact.
 

 

Pretty sure you are correct.  The toe piece has to have height a adjustable AFD, which the Duke has and IIRC the Guardian does not.

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