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2nd buckle down from the top cutting off circulation

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

Been working with a new pair of Salomon X-100 boots and after multiple attempts with various shell stretching to get them wide enough for my feet and some Intuition HD Race liners, we're discovered that it's not my forefoot or instep that is cutting off the circulation like originally assumed. With the bottom buckles undone completely, I tightened up the 2nd buckle from the top and lightly snugged the top buckle as a test. In 20 minutes, I had lost feeling in my big toe and the one next to it. The boots are very comfortable until I start to lose feeling.

 

I have custom orthotics and we've molded the Intuition liners (the stock liners hurt my instep). How the heck do you modify a shell or liner when the one buckle that needs to be tight is the one buckle that cutting circulation? I hesitate to allow any cutting of my liners to get around large veins near my ankles in case that's not the problem.

post #2 of 12

very difficult to tell without seeing the problem in the flesh so to speak, it may be that you can remould the liner with some padding on your foot over the prominent blood vessel so that you have a little extra space very locally, alternatively there could be something nerve related going on is it ok when you don't have the clips done up?

 

stupid test, try standing in a skiing stance (feet parallel knees slightly flexed) on your footbeds without any boots on, doe the same thing happen.... it wouldn't be the first time i have seen a similar problem which is not boot related at all (if this is the case you need to be working with a practitioner who can assess where the entrapment or non-alignment is, it may be a slight manipulation can fix it, maybe the footbeds you are using are not doing their job properly)

 

hope that helps a little, but after confirming that it is boot/liner/footbed related then working with your fitter is the only way to get a full solution 

post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply. Here is a picture of the most likely suspect but as you can probably see, there are a lot of prominent veins bulging out of my foot which aren't there on the left foot. The left foot is fine. We tried padding the circled veins with some sticky foam but that didn't help and may require more aggressive tactics. This area is unfortunately where all liners seem to overlap. Stock liners, tongue liners, and power wraps all seem to overlap here.

 

I can stand in the shells with liners and footbeds for 30 minutes without any problems provided all the buckles are undone.

 

post #4 of 12

how firm was the foam used to pad the area, needs to be pretty firm to get any real definition into the liner, i would probably locally heat the liner with a heat gun rather than reheating the whole thing as you cannot remould them indefinitely

 

it is a wrap liner you are using?  

post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 

This liner is a tongue model instead of the wrap. The foam used to help pad certain areas wasn't all that stiff. I know it does something but maybe not enough in this case. I'll try something stiffer and more robust to create a pocket around the veins. If that doesn't work then I guess it's back to the bootfitter.

 

Thanks for the help! I'll report back later tonight or tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 

No dice.... I can feel the extra space around the suspect veins in my foot and if anything, I'm losing feeling even faster. I must be cutting off or pinching a nerve because I always go numb between the big and 2nd toes. This is insanely annoying! My liners have been remolded 5-6 times already and I haven't even made it to the slopes. I even tried my old Intuition wrap liners to see if I could make something work with those. This has literally become a guessing game.  Padding veins, padding nerves, stretching shells, swap liners, swap liners again.... 

 

I'm beginning to think this is going to require seeing a podiatrist to figure out why this only happens with one foot and not the other. The left foot never seems to have any real trouble.

post #7 of 12

have you been doing all this remoulding yourself or with a boot fitter? 

 

the numbness between 1st and 2nd toe would suggest deep peroneal nerve involvement, question is where is the impingement?, you can't keep remoulding the liners as they won't take endless heat cycles, so i would be seeing your boot fitter (is he a C.Ped Certified pedorthist) or a podiatrist after that

post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 

Here it comes.....

 

Time is more important to me than the money on this topic and the only bootfitter anywhere near me is 4 hours away (8 hours round trip) and yes he is or has C Ped certified staff on hand. I have plans to go see him next month but I'd like to be able to take some knowledge to him of what I need. Otherwise, I fear I'll be going in only to spend 2 hours tackling the basics only for there to not be enough time left in the day and me go home having completely wasted a day and hundreds of dollars. Same goes for bootfitters out west. I have no doubt they are excellent bootfitters but again, I want to have some rough knowledge of what I need before wasting half a day or more sitting in a shop while my friends are skiing.

 

BTW I completely agree with you on the deep peroneal nerve but it's hard to figure out where the problem is happening. I honestly believe it's pinching at the front of the ankle making this problem more difficult. I was able to keep that nerve from pinching in some other boots last season with my pro wrap liners but my heel wasn't locked in very well and I just ended up pinching the superficial peroneal nerve instead.

post #9 of 12

since you have not gone to a boot fitter, do you mind telling us how you have been heating up these liners? 

 

have you been padding the instep bump? clue is in your first post... (the stock liners hurt my instep). if that is where the pressure is coming from, why are you looking for anything deep on your foot, ankle, or lower leg? :(

 

jim 

post #10 of 12

taking this knowledge to your boot fitter is akin to  walking into the hospital and telling the surgeon how he is going to perform your ACL reconstruction

 

what you need to take to the boot fitter is as simple as "i have a problem, my toes go numb" it is the boot fitters job to work on why, but it appears you don't believe they can!

 

having heated the liners 5-6 time i hate to say it but they are probably toast or close to it, unless of course you are not heating them properly... you have't told us yet how they are being heated 

 

i will say good luck, but i doubt that you are going to get the results you are looking for using the methods you are right now

post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 

I have been heating the liners with a convection oven at 250F for 10 minutes and take care to make sure they don't crease when going into the boot. The fact that the left foot is the most comfortable it's ever been in a boot tells me that this process is working and there is something unique going on with the right foot.

 

I have padded the instep area without much luck. The reason I'm looking at ankle and lower leg is because I lose feeling with just the 2nd buckle done up. When I undo that one buckle, I can immediately feel my toes coming back.

 

CEM - You're right. I don't believe the bootfitter is going to help. I like to have faith that he is going to help. However, I've been to plenty of other certified specialists for other sports who haven't been able to help me either. "Huh! that's odd" is a phrase I hear A LOT! A couple years ago, I went to a bicycle fitter. That's was his main job at the bike shop. $250 and 4 hours later, I went home with a broken bike that was worse than when I started. In fairness, the guy has helped hundreds of people in the past and gave me enough knowledge to go fix it myself but ultimately, he couldn't fix it. This is pretty much how all of my sports go....


Edited by jfw432 - 10/19/15 at 4:21am
post #12 of 12

Each time you heat a liner it shrinks somewhat along with being compressed by your foot on the inside and the shell on the out side  this in turn makes the material more dense each time ----I agree

 

with CEM by now your liners will have degraded quite a bit (getting toasted). 

 

8837tn.jpg

To alleviate pressure on the deep peroneal nerve, you would need to locate it in your foot and have the tongue material modified (grind a groove) to allow a passage of the nerve all the way down into the foot---this would include where it courses across the top of the mid tarsal bones in the mid foot.

 

Tightening the ankle buckle will also compress the overlaps of the lower shell and tighten the boot over the mid foot, which could be (is most often) where your problem is occurring. If you want to see how much this occurs---pull the liner and then close/tighten the ankle buckle alone and notice how much the lower shell overlap pieces are pulled together by just this buckle.

 

The best advice so far has been by CEM about finding a good boot fitter/cped and then trusting him to do his magic.

 

mike


Edited by miketsc - 10/19/15 at 9:50am
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