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Yet another help pick ski thread. [2nd season, in PA]

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 

So everyone thinks their issue or question is unique, and therefore people assume they did not search first. I searched for three days now, in fact I joined this site because of my searches. I need help gathering information on what kind of ski to buy. Specifically I am wanting to know about waist, rocker, camber and effectiveness on my local (read: groomed and chopped up well used groomed I think is called crud, frontside in eastern PA) slopes. Me as a skier, this is my second year and I can ski everything at Spring Mt and most everything at Bear Creek (Not the mogul field and the blacks I did without falling but am not even close to comfortable.) Skied 12-16 day last year, and I did not start till Mid-January with lots of private lessons, I hope for 20+ days this year. My goal is to be able to ski greens and blues in comfort all over eastern PA this year.

The catch, there is always a catch otherwise it would not be unique: I am fat, very fat in fact, roughly 260,(down from 277 last year) at an amazingly average 5’11” height. Also I am formerly an athlete and am not weak, despite the desk job. Everything I read suggests heaver skiers need stiffer skis or they will chatter when speed is gained, just as my rentals last year did.

How do you find how stiff a ski is? How stiff do I want it?

Can someone suggest a width combination front/waist/tail that I am roughly looking for to carve tight little turns as I cruse from one side to the other of the trail.

So I am looking for things to look for, because I am looking at closeouts and used skis, as opposed to the latest and greatest, as I would rather spend on lift tickets, as opposed to equipment. (Have boots since day 2 and only need skis and poles)

Request clarifications as necessary.

 

Mod note: moved to Ski Gear from Beginner Zone, added to thread title

post #2 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

So everyone thinks their issue or question is unique, and therefore people assume they did not search first. I searched for three days now, in fact I joined this site because of my searches. I need help gathering information on what kind of ski to buy. Specifically I am wanting to know about waist, rocker, camber and effectiveness on my local (read: groomed and chopped up well used groomed I think is called crud, frontside in eastern PA) slopes. Me as a skier, this is my second year and I can ski everything at Spring Mt and most everything at Bear Creek (Not the mogul field and the blacks I did without falling but am not even close to comfortable.) Skied 12-16 day last year, and I did not start till Mid-January with lots of private lessons, I hope for 20+ days this year. My goal is to be able to ski greens and blues in comfort all over eastern PA this year.

 

The catch, there is always a catch otherwise it would not be unique: I am fat, very fat in fact, roughly 260,(down from 277 last year) at an amazingly average 5’11” height. Also I am formerly an athlete and am not weak, despite the desk job. Everything I read suggests heaver skiers need stiffer skis or they will chatter when speed is gained, just as my rentals last year did.

 

How do you find how stiff a ski is? How stiff do I want it?

 

Can someone suggest a width combination front/waist/tail that I am roughly looking for to carve tight little turns as I cruse from one side to the other of the trail.

 

So I am looking for things to look for, because I am looking at closeouts and used skis, as opposed to the latest and greatest, as I would rather spend on lift tickets, as opposed to equipment. (Have boots since day 2 and only need skis and poles)

 

Request clarifications as necessary.

 

Mod note: moved to Ski Gear from Beginner Zone, added to thread title

Welcome to EpicSki!  Good for you on getting boots early on.  I moved your thread because some people who know skis never check the Beginner Zone.

 

What length skis were you renting last season?  Did you ever talk to an instructor about buying skis?  Doesn't make a different for your question.  I'm just curious since relatively few beginners buy boots on Day 2.  So I know you are hooked. :)

 

Off-topic but if you can get free and are willing to drive, the Mid-Atlantic Gathering will be at Blue Knob Feb. 19-21.  Would stretch your abilities since it's got more vertical than most places in PA.  Off the beaten track enough to be relatively empty on weekends.

 

Paging @Philpug 

post #3 of 41

As someone else mentioned in the other thread, head to Buckmans for the tent sale/swap.  I just dropped off some stuff at the Whitehall store, hopefully I'll sell enough of it to get new boots .

They sponsor a demo day at Jack Frost on Dec. 18th, you may want to see if you can get to that.  Even if you are not in the market for new skis, you can get an idea of what brand/models feel good and see what is similar that is available as a leftover.  Compared to rentals, they will be a whole new realm. (actually, just about any ski will be much better than a rental, so don't sweat it too much for your first pair)

post #4 of 41
Thread Starter 

So why boots so fast? Well I have had several first tries in my life for skiing, and the rental boots kill my feet (10.5 EEEE) so I enjoyed my first day except for my feet and decided if I was taking a run at this, boots had to happen. Had the boots before googles or dedicated ski gloves.

Never asked an instructor about buying, but I went from 150s to 160s as rentals and if you noticed I did not ask length because I assume I am going to be in the 165 -170 range, but am not opposed to low 170s. The short turn radius seems useful to me as how I control my speed is to spend more time going horizontal on the slopes, with tight turns at the edges. The plan was to do a season rental of skis this year but it struck me that I could buy used / leftover for close to the rental price, in addition I suppose if I rent I may have options there also. As they say knowledge is power.

Blue knob is a bit far for a single day, and I am single dad of two teenagers, I have about 2 years left till I can cut out for an entire weekend. Also wrestling season may still be going on and I may have some parental cheering still to do.

Going to be at the Montgomeryville Buckmanns for a long lunch tomorrow (tent sale) hence needing knowledge now. And if I rent I will hit as many demo days I can to get a feel for the options.

post #5 of 41

Since you are interested in demo days . . . I just started a thread about the topic in the Beginner Zone.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/142999/what-is-a-demo-day-for-skis-a-beginner-zone-thread

post #6 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

So why boots so fast? Well I have had several first tries in my life for skiing, and the rental boots kill my feet (10.5 EEEE) so I enjoyed my first day except for my feet and decided if I was taking a run at this, boots had to happen. Had the boots before googles or dedicated ski gloves.

Never asked an instructor about buying, but I went from 150s to 160s as rentals and if you noticed I did not ask length because I assume I am going to be in the 165 -170 range, but am not opposed to low 170s. The short turn radius seems useful to me as how I control my speed is to spend more time going horizontal on the slopes, with tight turns at the edges. The plan was to do a season rental of skis this year but it struck me that I could buy used / leftover for close to the rental price, in addition I suppose if I rent I may have options there also. As they say knowledge is power.

Blue knob is a bit far for a single day, and I am single dad of two teenagers, I have about 2 years left till I can cut out for an entire weekend. Also wrestling season may still be going on and I may have some parental cheering still to do.

Going to be at the Montgomeryville Buckmanns for a long lunch tomorrow (tent sale) hence needing knowledge now. And if I rent I will hit as many demo days I can to get a feel for the options.


Need some blank lines, please. :)

 

One advantage of a swap organized by a ski shop is that there will be knowledgeable folks around that you can talk with. When I first started skiing with my daughter (age 4), the first pair of skis I bought were former rental skis for $100.  Had old boots.  Definitely beat having to rent each time we went.

 

The main advantage of a season rental is that you could switch lengths if necessary.  But the choice of skis may not be that exciting.

 

At 260 lbs, 5'11", 150cm was really short.  But I know that's what happens with beginners in at small ski areas.

post #7 of 41

First, if your goal is "My goal is to be able to ski greens and blues in comfort all over eastern PA this year." 

I would not buy ski at all for now. You would overgrown your first ski in a matter of the season (20+ days). Unless, buy used for really really cheap (less than $100), spend the rest on the good boots. When your goal will be "solid blue and some black" return to "buying ski" idea. You are going to use your first ski for a season, may be season and half, your first boots, if the boots are right - 3 to 5 seasons.

post #8 of 41
Thread Starter 

Well I went to the tent sale and left with a set of skis and poles.
Not much in the way of cheap, but the old geezers, seemed to think this was my best value, that was available.

Solomon BBR 166 cm w/ Z12 demo bindings, which is a 144-88-110 with a 11.5 turn radius. Cheaper than a season rental, should work out.

So, it appears I have bought a more advanced ski then my current abilities, but that may just mean more lessons.

post #9 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

Well I went to the tent sale and left with a set of skis and poles.
Not much in the way of cheap, but the old geezers, seemed to think this was my best value, that was available.

Solomon BBR 166 cm w/ Z12 demo bindings, which is a 144-88-110 with a 11.5 turn radius. Cheaper than a season rental, should work out.

So, it appears I have bought a more advanced ski then my current abilities, but that may just mean more lessons.


Congrats!  Just take it easy the first day or two.  I think you should be fine given that you are willing to invest in lessons.

 

In case you haven't seen it before, here are some basic balance exercises that I do all the time.  I do the static version when I'm waiting around for a few minutes whatever reason.  Building up control little by little takes consistency, but not a lot of physical effort.  I learned a few years about how I could help my skiing by having better balance while rehabbing from a knee injury (not skiing).

 

 

post #10 of 41

Wicks Ski & Sport in Exton will be having their consignment sale this weekend if I am not mistaken. usually a pretty good time to pick up some deals on used skis and very well some leftovers. 

post #11 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

Well I went to the tent sale and left with a set of skis and poles.
Not much in the way of cheap, but the old geezers, seemed to think this was my best value, that was available.

Solomon BBR 166 cm w/ Z12 demo bindings, which is a 144-88-110 with a 11.5 turn radius. Cheaper than a season rental, should work out.

So, it appears I have bought a more advanced ski then my current abilities, but that may just mean more lessons.

 

Wait - what?    They thought a 166cm BBR 8.9 was appropriate for 260lbs? 

post #12 of 41
Thread Starter 
2 employees thought so, mind you the longest ski I have been on was a 165 and most of my rentals last year wer between 150- 160. Lots of people were attempting to be helpful, giving their 2 cents. But it's stiff and wide, so here's to hoping it works. About the same cost as a season rental helps too.
post #13 of 41

the OP is 5'11" which is in cm ~ 180.3

Since he is a beginner, the ski should be about 10 - 15 cm shorter, right? So, 165-170 is about right size.

post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post

2 employees thought so, mind you the longest ski I have been on was a 165 and most of my rentals last year wer between 150- 160. Lots of people were attempting to be helpful, giving their 2 cents. But it's stiff and wide, so here's to hoping it works. About the same cost as a season rental helps too.


 

Both the rentals and the BBRs will work for what you want to do now - traverses with slow-speed pivoted/smeared turns at the end of each, on soft snow. 

I am expressing strong doubt that they will support you in edged turns (which is what you'll be paying to learn) without washing out.    Especially at some speed (like over 15mph), and particularly on harder snow.

post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

the OP is 5'11" which is in cm ~ 180.3

Since he is a beginner, the ski should be about 10 - 15 cm shorter, right? So, 165-170 is about right size.



My 150lb gf skied the 176cm when she was L5-6ish.

post #16 of 41

just a thought: Bode Miller is 6'2" and about 201 lbs (at least he was this winter). When he skis slalom, the FIS size is 165.

As I mentioned, OP bought ski which would last him one season... He would overgrew it by the ends and will get something more appropriate for his level.

post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post

2 employees thought so, mind you the longest ski I have been on was a 165 and most of my rentals last year wer between 150- 160. Lots of people were attempting to be helpful, giving their 2 cents. But it's stiff and wide, so here's to hoping it works. About the same cost as a season rental helps too.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

the OP is 5'11" which is in cm ~ 180.3

Since he is a beginner, the ski should be about 10 - 15 cm shorter, right? So, 165-170 is about right size.

Correct, but not the BBR at that length. Stay more traditional, maybe something like a Volkl AC20 or Head Rev77 as a couple of examples. Something in the mid 70mm range underfoot and a turn radius in the low teens. Plan on skiing these skis for maybe a season or two before you grow out of them. 

post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

just a thought: Bode Miller is 6'2" and about 201 lbs (at least he was this winter). When he skis slalom, the FIS size is 165.

 

So?    Yet more evidence that the height rule is the last thing that should be relevant to ski sizing.   

Ski build and skier weight and intended use (speed, edging angles etc.)  are the top three criteria here.   

The height rule makes assumptions about all those.    In this case (the BBR and the OP) two of the assumptions are false.

post #19 of 41

I think I know (at least I could guess) why the size is 166. I believe, that beginners or advance beginners are better to stay under 12m radius.

I took a peek into BBR (very nontraditional ski)

 

166 r 11.5 m

176 r 12.5 m

186 r 13.5 m

 

the store figured out that 176 with 12.5m radius would be too much for OP. (why store didn't offer him different ski set, I don't know)

Again, that is just my guess, and I could be wrong in all of the above.

post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

I think I know (at least I could guess) why the size is 166. I believe, that beginners or advance beginners are better to stay under 12m radius.

I took a peek into BBR (very nontraditional ski)

 

166 r 11.5 m

176 r 12.5 m

186 r 13.5 m

 

the store figured out that 176 with 12.5m radius would be too much for OP. (why store didn't offer him different ski set, I don't know)

Again, that is just my guess, and I could be wrong in all of the above.

 

 

The ski didn't offer him a different set because no one submitted something better for OP for sale.    These things run on a pretty random basis.    I've only been to the one Phil mentions - Wicks - once, but there were a large enough number of skis there.  Something quite a bit better  for OP could show.

You are not wrong in what you post.    It's just that those radii assume a consistently engaged ski - one which reliably, not twitchily, finds the edge and stays there until the OP wants it to let go.       That is where I had my doubts.

 

To OP - apologies if this makes you feel bad about your purchase.    I don't mean to make you feel like a makeover client on Project Runway.   You know, the one whose dress the judges rip apart.

post #21 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

To OP - apologies if this makes you feel bad about your purchase.    I don't mean to make you feel like a makeover client on Project Runway.   You know, the one whose dress the judges rip apart.

Do not apologize, I came asking a question and got some information, went to the sale made a choice. Just like the motorcycle I stumbled upon and bought this summer, the post purchase read reviews suggested it is not perfect for me, but for a first bike, it did have some bright spots. (BTW, the bike is working out wonderfully) I am assuming this ski choice is going to work out, and if it requires me to adapt a bit so be it. Limiting the outlay of cash increases available funds to actually ski, which is the point. I may even get a early season trip to Sunday River in a few weeks if a co-worked will let me and another coworker "borrow" their condo.

post #22 of 41

Talk about a very small world. I, too, was at Buckman's yesterday, and, talked to the OP, a little, and mostly about the excellent condition, about the Solly BBR's. What he did not tell you is that they were practically brand new and cost $175 (if I recall correctly), including demo bindings which he can use on his next skis. I doubt those skis were used more than a handful of days. Even before noon on the first day, there were not a lot skis, and, none that I would have recommended him buying due to either cost or condition issues. I don't know what he told the shop people with respect to his ability or needs, but, for a new skier getting a shorter ski with a small turning radius is not the worst case situation. So, if he gets a year, and loves skiing, he can resell the skis without bindings next year, and, still be financially ahead of the game. Remember, we date skis. not marry them.

 

edit: delete get boots as he has them. Senior moment, I guess. 

 

BTW, no offense taken about the "old geezers" comment.:rolleyes 


Edited by Living Proof - 10/15/15 at 6:41am
post #23 of 41
Thread Starter 

Thank you for your advice yesterday, I have a lot of people commenting positively about the BBRs both in condition and how fun they were for them.

So which OG were you? I am thinking you were at the end and my head was about to explode from all the input.

 

My description of my ability to them was: I started last year, got out to Spring Mountain and Bearcreek a total of 16 times, can ski all of Spring no issues, am nervous and slow on Bearcreeks blacks but do not fall. Never attempted the mogul run at BC. No more pizza, and am parallel at the end of my turns. (reality is I pizza to stop in crowds down near the lifts) And I mentioned I take lots of private lessons.

 

So plans are developing to bring in the skis to Buckmans for a full tune up / wax / bindings setup, I am timing the drop off with a yet to be made appointment with a boot fitter to get some adjustments made.

 

Anyone want to comment on DIN settings my rental ski setting was a 5 or 5.5, thinking this is low but skis did not exit at the wrong time, so maybe it was right and I always told the guy setting the din I was all about leaving the mountain without damage. Safe and chase a ski is the mind set. Also realize I started skiing @ 277lbs and the exercise of skiing dropped me to 254lbs. (Hoping for an other 20lb drop this season) and people say you can not ski in to shape. As I get lighter do I move up in din?

post #24 of 41

for DIN 

option 1: http://www.dinsetting.com/  would give you an idea

option 2: go to the shop

 

may be 5.5 is not really enough for 240 lb.

post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

 As I get lighter do I move up in din?

 

Lighter -> down
Smaller boot -> up 
Aggressiveness -> up

Age -> (down but quantized at 50yo)

post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

for DIN 

option 1: http://www.dinsetting.com/  would give you an idea

option 2: go to the shop

 

may be 5.5 is not really enough for 240 lb.

 

At my BSL, it takes 30+ pounds to make a difference in  DIN. You'd be surprised. You cannot guess at the DIN without having all the relevant info.

 

I just did a quick guess of OP's stats and got a DIN of 6 on that site. Change some of my guesses, and I'm sure it would be a 5.5.

post #27 of 41

I believe setting correct DIN is very important, and I would spend extra $15-$30 on this, so shop would do it correctly and test it. Just remember, the ACL would cost way more than $30, do the math.

(small DIN, and you would flight out from your skis, do high - and you would "flight" into emergency room).

post #28 of 41
Thread Starter 

Per www.dinsetting.com : Skier weight 210+, Height 5’11”-6"4", Age 10-49, Skier type:1 or 2, boot sole length: More than 331, Salomon Binding
Skier type 1 = Din 5.5
Skier type 2 = Din 6.5

 

Now how do I compensate for the formula being only for the little people near 210lbs?

post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prologix View Post
 

 

Now how do I compensate for the formula being only for the little people near 210lbs?

 

mark yourself as III 

post #30 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

mark yourself as III 


Type 3 = din 8

 

Is this a work up to thing like I start say at 6, then 6.5 and so on to 8 or just have the shop set to 8 and pray.

 

Edit: Sorry I forgot to mention I am an engineer, and as such believe outcomes can be predicted if only I have the right information.

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