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World Cup 2015-2016 - Page 4

post #91 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

I thought these new skis were scientifically designed to reduce knee injuries?!?!? what happened? Thumbs Down

Abfahrt's (DH's) are not much different than ever!:rolleyes

post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Abfahrt's (DH's) are not much different than ever!rolleyes.gif

I presume he may have been referring to Mr. Ligety's injury during GS training. As you know, 35 meter GS skis were mandated mainly as being "safer."
post #93 of 116

True, that was the impetus for the 35M radius. Essentially longer radius skis that would "hook up" less at speed, and would eliminate a lot of injuries based on mandating different course sets as well. We could debate it all day long, and the debate continues to be endless as to what it's truly achieved. If you want to go conspiracy theory, we could argue that as well. One thing that also needs to be considered is that the FIS mandated equipment change covers a much wider horizon of competitors than just WC athletes. And for the majority affected, the manufacturers have re-engineered GS skis to work real well with the radius. Essentially better flex, different tip shapes, and you name it. So probably a dumb change, and not a big factor right now. I see very small first year FIS boys doing just fine on the right 35M skis. Same thing for the women's skis. Many feel that a 188 30M ski is an easier transition for the girls that the old skis were. 

 

If you look at the video of Ligety's crash, it doesn't look to me to be anything that's related to the ski radius. Terrain change, compression, loaded up a tail, rotated.....and probably a classic "phantom foot" injury which often snaps the ACL. Stiff ski tail, leg levered against the back of the stiff boot, all weight on one ski while rotating/twisting. It happens. A lot. That's just my guess. 

 

There sure have been a lot of knee injuries this season. Haven't heard any theories that I buy into, other than really bad luck. Some of them have been pretty minor {apparently Shiffrin's MCL tear}, and others quite severe {Menninger's ACL, MCL and little mentioned patella tendon}. Svindal is an animal, and I presume will be back ready to contend when the season opens. Look at how fast, and how well he came back from his Achilles. 

 

Hope they all heal well and come back strong. Still amazed to see Reichelt ski as he did today. The word Saturday night on the optimistic side was 2-3 weeks, and very possibly the season. Now he's back, and probably will be right in the hunt for the DH globe. Actually will be interesting to watch both he DH and SG unfold. 5 DH's left, 4 SG's. We should all root on Andrew Weibrecht in the SG! 

post #94 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

I thought these new skis were scientifically designed to reduce knee injuries?!?!? what happened? Thumbs Down

Things are not really all that simple, and it's not just ski. Things in men GS changed a bit during last few years (nothing related to ski in particular) and there's more and more young guys coming and doing extremely good. 2, 3 years ago Ligety was on top of line, and he could actually win pretty much every race with skiing on 80% (I guess you don't need more proof to believe me this, then just looking on results when he was 2sec infront of second placed rider, or winning with 0.5sec after huge mistake(s) during runs). Nowadays he can't anymore, as rest of field caught up with him. Considering he's not going to be happy with 5th or 10th place, he pushes much harder then he did before (and so are everyone else). And when you start skiing on limit every single run, your chances for something to go wrong are much much bigger, then when you ski way under your limit. So skis are not really the main reason, but pushing harder and being on limit most of time is. And yes, it sucks, when people get injured, but unfortunately that's top sport.

post #95 of 116
As equipment improves to protect from injury, technique (and aggression to win) improves to take advantage of said protect to its max. Down side is when you go down this path you ultimately step beyond the limits and find the level at which new protection required.

Remember the human interface is a fragile one, unfortunately the desire to win and succeed far exceeds those mere limitations so sometimes the interface fails.
post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 

Things are not really all that simple, and it's not just ski. Things in men GS changed a bit during last few years (nothing related to ski in particular) and there's more and more young guys coming and doing extremely good. 2, 3 years ago Ligety was on top of line, and he could actually win pretty much every race with skiing on 80% (I guess you don't need more proof to believe me this, then just looking on results when he was 2sec infront of second placed rider, or winning with 0.5sec after huge mistake(s) during runs). Nowadays he can't anymore, as rest of field caught up with him. Considering he's not going to be happy with 5th or 10th place, he pushes much harder then he did before (and so are everyone else). And when you start skiing on limit every single run, your chances for something to go wrong are much much bigger, then when you ski way under your limit. So skis are not really the main reason, but pushing harder and being on limit most of time is. And yes, it sucks, when people get injured, but unfortunately that's top sport.

 

Yep, I have to agree with what you're saying...skiing at the limit, especially in WC, is required if you want to win, and is potentially hazardous to the health of your knees and other body parts. My issue is that the FIS had a database of injuries before the new regs that supposedly "proved" that the old GS skis were causing too many injuries...so...where's the database for injuries after the reg changes that "proves" that the new regs are safer?

 

I agree with Bode, the FIS ought to stay the hell away from equipment regs and look for other ways to promote safety. I'd be curious to know what you think about the Kitz DH. I thought it was a travesty...the course prep was even poorer than usual, IMHO the race should never have been run under those conditions, and stopping the race after 30...after Svindal and Streitberger blew out their knees in the same spot...was a worthless decision pretty much like trying to stop a horse after the barn door is open. Your thoughts?

 

:(

post #97 of 116

Point being that ski shape has little to do with reducing injuries. Focus should be put on course safety and other equipment like helmets, airbags and bindings if FIS has a real interest in keeping its athletes safe.

post #98 of 116

A couple of things.  The macho, one-upsmanship in course prep (or lack of it) at many European ski venues is traditional.  Like the Middle Ages, cavalry charges and the Inquisition.  Just like NFL collisions to hardass music videos, that ski course modus operandi has to go.  Like ski racing being only a rich man's sport.  

 

Next, it's my understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - that the last few seasons Ligety has had several nagging, underlying injuries that have made optimal skiing difficult for him, and he's had to compensate for that.  One has been a lower back injury that doesn't go away.  Can't remember the other: is it an ankle, thigh, groin? not sure.

 

 This has made him have to push, tighten up, ski with less safety margin - compensating for the injuries.   Tightening up has been a problem for him in all the events other than the GS, before this.  If you look at old videos of him in the slalom, for instance, it is really noticeable how tight he is often compared to looking back to back at him running GS, so relaxed there.  Same with the speed events - tightness.  

 

By contrast, Mikaela Shiffrin in past years has been the opposite: loose and relaxed in slalom, tightening up when running GS and faster.  You can see it in her old videos too.  

post #99 of 116
Thread Starter 
post #100 of 116

Has been a rotten snow year as well, which has led to poor surfaces. Caused problems and injuries for a couple of skiers.

post #101 of 116

Lindsy Vonn has crashed again in the Super-G in Suldeu, Andorra. She was brought off the mountain by medics. She was laying very still and the geys did their best to get her skis off without moving her. Could be her knee again, or even worse, since it looked like they were stabilizing her on the snow...

post #102 of 116
Sorry to hear.
post #103 of 116
Left knee in a stabilzer. Looked like she was pinching the line, got backseat on her inside ski. Probably visability. Dye is useless is those conditions.

I'll go on my tirade about what the hell FIS is doing running races in these conditions in more detail later. ONE of thr elite seven (starting 16-22) finished in the top 10. Quite telling. After a three hour delay with the weather, which came back in after the start.

So now BOTH the mens and women's overall WC will be decided based on injuries due to crappy course/weather conditions. This is a big issue.
I hope for LV that she heals and rehabs well.
The FIS leadership resonsible for these decisions needs a whack on the side of the head.

Running speed in those conditions, and lose another of the sports stars is not good sport the sport.

And don't use the "it's an outdoor sport cliche".
Sad.
post #104 of 116

Early report is a "minor" fracture of the left knee.  She is still scheduled to go tomorrow but the final decision hasn't been made.

post #105 of 116

Lindsey Vonn has announced her season is done.  Looks like Laura has clear sailing now.

post #106 of 116

The overall worldcup will probably go to Lara Gut. But the downhill cup is still very close, as is the GS competition. And the Slalom too, but that has not so much to do with Gut.

post #107 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post

Left knee in a stabilzer. Looked like she was pinching the line, got backseat on her inside ski. Probably visability. Dye is useless is those conditions.

I'll go on my tirade about what the hell FIS is doing running races in these conditions in more detail later. ONE of thr elite seven (starting 16-22) finished in the top 10. Quite telling. After a three hour delay with the weather, which came back in after the start.

So now BOTH the mens and women's overall WC will be decided based on injuries due to crappy course/weather conditions. This is a big issue.
I hope for LV that she heals and rehabs well.
The FIS leadership resonsible for these decisions needs a whack on the side of the head.

Running speed in those conditions, and lose another of the sports stars is not good sport the sport.

And don't use the "it's an outdoor sport cliche".
Sad.


I agree it is about greed, everyone's including the athletes.

 

The top level make good money via sponsorships, the bottom hope to get to the top, the promoters are under contract to deliver, so it becomes a how much to risk game to make the all important money and the general public want to see action (not to far of the Roman Gladiators).

 

Bad as it sounds all are at fault, but the buck stops at the athletes decision whether they step up and go or not.

post #108 of 116
The womens DH globe has been locked up by LV. The SL is close to done, with Hansdotter having a 139 point lead with two SL to go. She's been top 5, I think in every SL this season with no DNF's. But Zuzulova is skiing at home this weekend. If she wins, and Hansdotter has a very unlikely bad day, it might get interesting.
Two SG's, both in Swtzerland. That one looks to go to Gut. She needs one decent result to overtake LV. Weirather is less than 100 points behind her. Key for Gut is to ski clean, no DNF's. She's been consistent. I think she has that one in the bag.
GS will be interesting. They haven't raced since January. Two left. Top 3 are within 80 points of each other. Should be the most interesting.
But overall, in she's healthy, this should be Lara Gut's by a wide margin.
Would have been a fun battle between LV and LG.
post #109 of 116

How many races were cancelled this year due to no or poor snow conditions?

post #110 of 116
The City Event that was to be held in Munich on January 1st was cancelled way back in early October. It had been cancelled 3 out of the last 4 times they's tried to hold it. Pretty much a joke. Since they already had the CE in Stockholm on the calendar, they didn't try to reschedule it. Those things take a TON of work, and a lot of money. IMO, they should take it out of the WC points. Maybe pay big cash prizes, and celebrate it as an "event." Having them could in the SL standings makes NO sense.

I think otherwise, though some events had to be moved, and there were some calendar changes, they got everything in. Big business. They make it happen, somehow.
post #111 of 116
WC- there were quite some shuffeling around because of bad conditions. Many of the races were on sub-par surfaces. Take a look at the FIS calender and you will see that a lot of the races has a red text "replaces ...". It's been a weird season. And I disagree re the city events and a lot of the atletes really like it. But not all of course.
Edited by Karlsson - 3/18/16 at 12:57am
post #112 of 116

Agree, there was a lot of shuffling, and cobbling things together. There were some really lousy snow surfaces, and lousy weather. There could actually be some finger pointing at races that probably should have been run differently. I still look back to the Beaver Creek SG, and Hirscher's win. Odd day. But, in the end, I think that FIS did as well as they could could get in a complete calendar. And the way things are working out, the overall globes are runaway wins for Gut and Hirscher. 

 

 

I know number of skiers who have skied in the various City Events. They are fun, when they are held. They do like the "buzz" and the atmosphere. I think the event in Stockholm this winter was great fun for all. But if you were in a tight race for a SL globe, you wouldn't  be excited about the fact that the things count in the SL standings. That's my only point. It's NOT SL. What I hear, from coaches and athletes, is that if there wasn't WC points "skin in the game", etc., along with the national federations pushing tech skiers to be there, the top of the start list would not all be there. The people I know who have enjoyed it are not at the top of the sport. 

 

As fun as it is, they'd probably take four days off, instead. I hear that there's a proposal on the table to still have the City Events, but to have the WC points out of picture. The thought is that perhaps they can pay pretty significant prizes for the top eight finishers, or some such thing. 

 

Not much WC left!

post #113 of 116
Wrapping it up this weekend.
And there are off course different opinions. Technically parallel SL is SL. It is skied on SL skis. And some like it, top skiers too, and others don't. I know that e.g. Henrik Kristofersen isn't that fond of it and I overheard at the Stockholm event that Ingemar (Stenmark) didn't like to race parallel back in his day. But he was all for it, realising the marketing potential. Frida Hansdotter loves it. And I don't think it's relevant to ask if they'd rather have a day off -- would they like to have fewer regular SL and replace them with city events? Judging by the respons on the Stockholm event a lot of athletes appreciated it and welcomes more events like it. I can see your point about FIS points. OTOH, the SL specialists always win these races -- the ones that also handles the head to head psychology. No matter what we think and speculate in, I would be very surprised if we don't see more parallel SL city races already next season Then if there's a hefty check or FIS points to race for, we can only speculate in.
All the best.
post #114 of 116
Ski Racing in general needs to pull together more interest and sponsorship in the US. And it needs to be "televised'. (video streamed?) with some consistency

Take a hint from the NFL and The Nascar boys...

Monday Night Football. Big advertising dollars

Nascar under the lights. Same, advertising dollars

And US skiers have gained celebrity satus (and results!) like never before

.....Now is the time to pick up on this in the US

FIS and the USST .....both miss the boat without air time!

It's incredible that we have to get our ski race viewing days later off Youtube! ....Can't get decent adertising dollars that way

.....Just Sayin'
post #115 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Rip It View Post

Ski Racing in general needs to pull together more interest and sponsorship in the US. And it needs to be "televised'. (video streamed?) with some consistency

True. But I wonder how much of chicken and egg scenario it is. You can't get broadcast without pulling in advertisers; And you can't pull in advertisers without consistent broadcasts and viewership numbers.

(And that presumes you could get enough viewers to profit on the ad sales.)
post #116 of 116
Hmm.... How many people, even on a casual basis, watch the snow sports segments of the Olympics? ( I mean this in actual nielsen ratings)

....There is a significant cross over population represented within these viewers that would no doubt tune in to a US race and snow sports
series.

...Possibly like the old Pro Races that were (?) a derivative of World Cup

Dare I suggest that an association with Snowboarding and X Ganes-like activities might help broaden viewer based demographics

Under the lights... City-like party atmosphere

I don't know.... Done right it could be an interesting and successful series. Bet the Caffine boys (RedBull , Monster, et al) would support the concept

..cool.gif:
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