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pain around the ankles from boots

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I had all kinds of pain last year in my then new boots, so am getting new boots this season (again; this is frustrating in so many ways).  

 

One of the pains was at the ankle.  It wasn't from a hot spot at the outside of the bony part of the ankle.

This was an interior muscular soreness associated with some muscle action; it continued when the boots were off, and lasted all season.  

There were other issues with my feet and with my boots that complicated everything.

The end result was that I was limping around the house about half way through the season, and this did not go away.

I had an injury from the previous summer which I thought was acting up, but by the end of the season it finally became clear that the boots were causing my pains.


I just read somewhere that looseness in the forefoot of the boot can cause muscle ache/soreness/pain around the ankle.  It evidently has to do with the peroneus longus, or peroneus group, getting activated to compensate for the boot's looseness in the forefoot.

 

Anyone familiar with this effect?  I've never heard of it.  

post #2 of 16

the job of the peroneal muscle group is to pronate the foot and stabilise it if you start to go into inversion, not heard of loose forefoot of boots causing a strain there but if your foot is moving around then the muscle will be firing all the time, time for a chat with your boot fitter 

post #3 of 16

What size feet (in centimeters)?

 

what size boots (boot sole length)?

 

just curious.

 

mike

post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 

Since you're curious:

 

Left foot 25 cm.

Right foot 24.2 cm.

Low volume instep, narrow forefoot.

 

The boot that caused the pain was too big in oh so many ways - 24.5 Redster Pro 110s.

post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

Since you're curious:

 

Left foot 25 cm.

Right foot 24.2 cm.

Low volume instep, narrow forefoot.

 

The boot that caused the pain was too big in oh so many ways - 24.5 Redster Pro 110s.


Thanks for the reply.

 

Custom foot beds???

 

Pronate a lot??

 

When you do a shell check, how much space is behind each of your heels in that boot?  1.5 to 2 finger widths will not be a good answer, since your fingers may not be as small as mine.  We use a piece of 1/2 inch ID CPVC pipe one foot long to gauge the open space---that is 15mm in OD---the maximum amount we want to see.

 

We always size boots to the small foot for a shell check and stretch the boot for the longer foot if needed.  This might mean that you could / might fit into a 23.5 shell?????---provided you have low volume feet.:cool

 

mike


Edited by miketsc - 10/8/15 at 9:06am
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

Mike, I already know those boots were too large.  They were too wide, too high, and the length was ok for my longer foot but not my shorter one.  I bought them because I trusted the very highly recommended bootfitter who put me in them.  They "felt" tight when I got them.  Bad move on my part.  How many bad moves and good bootfitters putting me in the wrong boot will it take to get me in the right boot?  I've never been in the right boot.

 

I've already seen a new bootfitter, and 23 shells are on order.  I chose not to go with plugs, although my forefoot is maybe narrow enough to warrant a 92-93mm last.  I may have made another bad choice, or maybe not.  Those Redsters also had a very acute forward lean which might have contributed to my troubles.  I'll be in Rossi Heros (97 last) this next season.  The forward lean won't be so severe.  I may opt for aftermarket liners as well.  Not sure.  We'll see.

 

What I'm after with this thread is some info regarding the pain I felt last year from my foot moving sideways inside those Redsters (also 97 last).  I'm wondering if the muscular ankle aches I had all last season might have been related to the left-right movement of the feet inside the boots and any compensatory muscle activation that may have been happening to hold the foot/lower leg stable.  Also, those boots had no chance of clamping my heel back as the cuffs were way too wide and the instep too high.  This was not evident early season, and the bootfitter did not point it out.  Did I say he was HIGHLY regarded?

post #7 of 16
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

 

l be in Rossi Heros (97 last) this next season.  The forward lean won't be so severe.  I may opt for aftermarket liners as well.  Not sure.  We'll see.

 

What I'm after with this thread is some info regarding the pain I felt last year from my foot moving sideways inside those Redsters (also 97 last).  I'm wondering if the muscular ankle aches I had all last season might have been related to the left-right movement of the feet inside the boots and any compensatory muscle activation that may have been happening to hold the foot/lower leg stable.  Also, those boots had no chance of clamping my heel back as the cuffs were way too wide and the instep too high.  

I think you mentioned this loose heel issue in a previous post, and I agree that if you had to compensate for this, you would have been over using the inverter / everter muscles in you legs as CEM mentioned. 

 

Also have a boot with too much forward lean, which will some times / (often) cause your heels to rise at or during initiation, which will feel very sloppy,------ which brings me to another question,

how big are your calf muscles, (measure circumference at top of liner)----- and did you ski with the spoiler in between the liner and shell?  This boot comes with a forward lean adjustment that can be set on 16 or 18 degrees---where was your set?

 

A 97mm lasted boot would be 97mm in a 26.5 shell--- in a 23.5 it would be 93mm wide across the forefoot---might fit.

 

mike

post #8 of 16

looseness anywhere in the boot will cause skiers to compensate with whatever you can throw at the ski edge. meaning that good skiers inherently know what they want the edge of the ski to do on the snow, and when there is even subtle movement in the command center (ski boot) you compensate either in use of micro muscles and or body movements to make it work. in your case it shows up in your feet and ankles. to solve this conundrum, you have to get to the source of the problem. ankle pain is the symptom, somewhere else in your set-up is the actual cause of the compensatory action.

 

you are making the same mistake again. the target fit, size and shape of the hero 97 will not be that different than the redster in the 97 last. a better thing for you overall will be the rossi hero zj+. this boot is sold in europe specifically to ski instructors and high performance skiers. in the u.s. it is only referenced in the race catalogue for rossi/lange. you cannot always buy your way into boot fit nirvana, sometimes you have to sneak up and surprise a good fit...or find a guy that gets you and your foot and has the skills to manipulate your boot to work for your individual set of circumstances. marginal talent boot fitter + with bad boot choice = spin cycle!!!

 

a liner may help... either zips or a foam injected, however the holding power of a performance boot should come from the shell not the liner. plug boots all have very thin but firm liners that contain the foot well when in a low volume shell. a proper performance fit is achieved when you are able to drive the foot down and back into the shell for control.

 

the issue with containment of the rear foot with a low volume instep heel or ankle is that for the measured length of any shell the instep height will be somewhat relative. what this means is that to get the shell down on the foot you have to get into a shorter shell that by design will have a lower roof and a narrower heel shape. zj+ in a 23 with the toe box extended and any fit work for boney spots ground to match your foot...otherwise you are headed down the same road with a 97mm "pro" last.

 

the x factor for you also will come down to a proper assessment of your foot to see if there is something going on with the mechanics of your foot that is also leading to your pain.specifically i would like to know if there is some hyper mobility in the ankle, midfoot, or 1st and 5th metatarsals joints :(

 

good luck sussing this out, look out for boot fitters with rainbow unicorn horns and pixie dust :)

 

jim

post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 

What does zj+ stand for?  Is this a junior boot?  Can it be found in the US?

 

I cannot, cannot ski if my feet are cold.  To give you an idea of my issue with body temperature, I have Hotronics which I keep up at the top setting all day,

and I wear two boot gloves over each boot.  All the time.  I ski in New England, on a windy mountain.  

 

I concluded that if warmth and fit are at odds, I choose warmth.  I cannot ski in a boot that fits perfectly if my feet are cold. So the choice, which may very well have been a bad one.

I was planning on aftermarket liners anyway.  I'm paying attention.  Tell me more.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 10/9/15 at 12:14pm
post #10 of 16

someone has given you bad information....

 

perfectly fit, tight boots are warmer than boots that are too big. the reason why is that we will over buckle, distort the shell when you attempt to get foot hold of a boot that does not inherently fit the basic shape of your foot.

 

if you have blood flow or nerve issues, you may still need the hotronics and boot gloves. however reread above statement, getting a properly shaped, properly fit performance boot should improve the warmth, and at worst case scenario they will be as bad as your last pair of too big boots :) 

 

any rossi or lange dealer that sells boots for racers will either stock or have access to the zj+ models. we have both the rossi and the lange in stock. this model is about a 110 to 120 flex and the j+ has a bit more room in the toe box, and navicular areas of the boot.

 

jim

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 

I need a boot that's narrow from ball of foot area all the way back to the heel.

And low instep height.  And narrow cuff down at the lower cuff buckle.

The boot that's on order for me is a size smaller than my current too-big boot in length.

post #12 of 16

Everything Jim is telling you is spot on.  Boots that are too big are cold, they hurt and they ski poorly.  The attained goal when in a properly volume sized boot is that you no longer have to crush your feet with the buckles so they are warmer, more comfortable and ski better.

 

However, getting your 25 foot into a 23 is going to surprise me unless you are working with someone very good.

 

Lou

post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Yes, I understand the crushing of feet with buckles. 

 

However, I have an additional issue with the cold feet thing - my feet are cold in the house when in socks with no shoes.  

My feet are cold for no reason, all year long even in summer.  There are no crushing buckles on my socks.  

Bootfitters giving me advice need to know that my feet run cold without any crushing buckle action.  

I know I don't want head room over my instep in my boot before I buckle it down, and am taking that into account in choosing a boot.

 

Thanks, guys, for your advice.  I'll report back a year from now on how that 23 Rossi works out for me.  Clearly there will be several

factors different in this boot, not only the length and volume.  Cuff height will be lower, and forward lean will be more upright.

I stood in them for about an hour in the shop; my bootfitter and I think it will work length-wise.  He's already made new footbeds.

 

Time will tell about the volume issue.

post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post
 

Everything Jim is telling you is spot on.  Boots that are too big are cold, they hurt and they ski poorly.  The attained goal when in a properly volume sized boot is that you no longer have to crush your feet with the buckles so they are warmer, more comfortable and ski better.

 

However, getting your 25 foot into a 23 is going to surprise me unless you are working with someone very good.

 

Lou

 

I am.  

post #15 of 16

is this the Zj+ or the 97mm pro boot we are talking about now (the one on order), if the latter i will guess that we will be having the same discussion same time same place next year, if the former then there is a good chance you will have a great season 

 

the information that Jim has given you is as good as you will ever get, yet you appear to be throwing it back in his face

 

hope it all works out

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 

Sorry.  I didn't mean to be disrespectful. 

 

The discussion has drifted from the topic I intended to address, but I know that's because of good intentions.  I truly appreciate the advice everyone is giving me, and I'm absorbing it all. I am working with a real live boot fitter whom I trust, so that relationship, which I have faith in, needs to be taken into account.  I'll report back, and I'll eat my helmet and say you were right if that ends up being the case.  Or, if the boots I've ordered turn out to fit well after they are tweaked, I'll let you know why they worked when you thought they wouldn't.  

 

If that happens, I'm sure it will only be because of incomplete information delivered by me to you in this thread.  


Thanks again.  

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