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When to add OMFit to ZipFits?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I've seen posts where people have mentioned adding OMFit to their ZipFits 1, 2 or even 3 times after the initial fitting. Is this common and what problems does it solve?

 

I have a specific case I'm wondering about. I've just gotten a pair of ZipFit Garas which I put into Dalbello Krypton Pros to replace the original Dalbello TruFit tongue liner. So far the fit is really good but there is one problem. I've heated the shells and fitted the ZipFits and I've heated both the shells and the liners to fit them. In both cases they are good when they are warm but when they cool down I'm getting some pain just above the outer ankle bone (lateral malleous if I'm reading foot diagrams correctly). Is this a) something that will go away once they're skied b) a spot where more OMFit is needed c) a problem from a footbed that's too thick. I mention the footbed (Sidas thermoformed, I think "Custom Pro" model) because the area just above my ankle is close to the seam that goes across the Gara halfway up the liner. I think tis is the top of the OMFit pouch. Any advice?

 

Thanks

post #2 of 16

Work the problem spot around with your fingers putting a good 20-30lbs of pressure on it - if it feels like it might be improving then there's very good odds it will improve with skiing.  

post #3 of 16

There's an art to fitting the ZipFits.

Check this out:

 

http://www.zipfit.com/dfs.html

post #4 of 16

I have Zipfit's;  World Cup,  now have Grand Prix, and have made a mistake or two along the way.

 

In respect to your plight, I had the opposite problem,  plus one.  All four Malleolus (the lateral knobs at the base of the fibula & Tibia, which many seem to term as ankle.  They actually reside to the side's of the ankle joint,  so 'malleolus' is just being precise ),  were nudging the low side of the boot Malleolus (commonly referred to ankle) pockets;  Lange WC 120 97mm,  Down-under foot bed's.  I did not have much upward room available to gain relief,  not a sixteenth of an inch -overall-, but a bit.  Made my own shim at one thirty-second overall blending to a sixteenth in the heal area.  I vehemently oppose heal lifts,  seeing them as a crutch to avoid a properly fit boot,  but in this case it got my malleolus off the bottom of the pockets,  avoiding four punches/heat stretch's.

 

I agree with 'cantunamunch' on massaging the area with much thumb or knuckle pressure.  Try that.

If that doesn't rectify the problem,  and if you have enough thickness of foot bed,  _or the boot board,  one or the other can be shaved;  it would be best to remain equal left to right standing height in the boot's,  a thirty-second/ 0.75mm can make quite a bit of difference in volume,  though likely would not bother height enough to worry about.  I am not a Fitter,  and unless you are adept in shop work, I recommend a fitter does any modification.  You do not want to ruin a good footbed, and for sure not a boot-board

 

More omnifit can easily and inexpensively be added to the tongue to regain any ankle to heal pocket retention lost; _if you feel the need.  It likely will make near one notch more on the cuff buckle without additional omnifit.

 

If that doesn't solve the situation,  I'd be looking for a fitter/shop that is capable of doing a dual shell punch,  as the inner & outer cuff need to get up = bigger.  Some shop's, even if they say they can, cannot adequately do this;  been there.
  Jimbo at  Precision Ski and Golf  in Frisco CO, did a great job on mine;  he had to go after it twice,  using a larger punch head the second time.
  John at One Stop Ski Shop in Steamboat Springs gave it a great start, and said if I needed more he felt like he could get more.  It helped.   I was with another skier and there wasn't time to return.

 

You want to emphasize that uP is the direction.  So who ever does this knows to warm the shell on the up-side as best possible.  The good press's have a heated ball, interchangeable with one or two sizes larger ~ball shaped.  The ball will try to seek the pocket that is.  But if the plastic is warmed well in the direction of uP,  then the punch -should- nudge that way as the path of least resistance.
Very good if they can let the boot cool while in the press;  a half hour or so.

 

I do not wish to make an argument concerning what I have to say next.  That ?might be for another thread

Do not worry about side to side being or becoming loose at the Malleolus area.   I came from  Injected foam liners, which are the ministers hand-shake snug fitting all over.  Hard to get on or off if you have bony feet,  to World Cup Zipfit.  Never had I skied so well,  while having SO much lateral room.  I feel I made a mistake in lessening that ,  which seemed like  slop  at the time.  Shoulda let it ride and gotten used to it,  then ?possibly? reduced the freedom of movement.  The Tongue gives you,  or can give you _if more fill is needed,   plenty of heal pocket retention.  With a good footbed, ski with your feet, and the cuff also for coarser movement.  By allowing ankle freedom you lessen the work required of  those knees.  Instep area,  heal pocket _all,  best be snug to your preference,  and upper cuff depending upon your wishes;  what type of skiing you are doing at the time.

 

Zipfit states and I concur, they ought to be skied in a few days;  seems they like -5- days,  before doing much adjusting.  Though if something is -obviously- off kilter,  that would be an exception,  and best be attended too.

 

My "plus one" is:  an inner malleolus extending out a quarter inch more than normal.  Auto vs motorcycle incident.  It put a dent in the motor-cycle frame.

 

Hope this helps.


Edited by Noah - 10/1/15 at 6:26pm
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

I'm finding that I can work the spot a bit as Cantunamunch suggested. 

 

I fit them yesterday morning and noted the problem spot and tried them on a few hours later with the same result. Today when I tried them on I found the spot was less pronounced and working the spot has reduced it a little more. Even though I thought they were fully cooled when I tried them on 4 hours after cooking yesterday, they were less plastic today and also seemed to have shifted and loosened slightly. The material seems to cool really slowly.

 

Will ski them as the next step and try to be a little patient, as Noah recommended, before making any changes. Thanks!

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

In the spirit of Christmas I’m going to title this “the 7 days of zipfits”.

 

The first day I skied with the zipfits I found that the control was really good, but the fit felt very sloppy. Tightening the buckles a notch helped and also eliminated the pain behind the ankle. However, I had a bunch of quad pain and also calf pain. I have never had calf pain before. The second day produced the same results and I also found that I had a hard time standing in the boots in lift lines.

 

Somewhere around day 4 or 5 I realized that it is easy to over-tighten your boots when using these liners. With other boots and liners at some point I would have a sharp pain, usually in the instep, that let me know they were as tight as they could be. With the zipfits the signal was that after a few runs my feet were really cold. I had slowly tightened them until I had reduced the circulation in my feet.  Since then, after dialing back the buckles a bit, I’ve skied them on a day in the teens and they were actually quite a bit warmer than the Dalbello liners would have been.

 

Comparing the old liners and the zipfits I noticed that they looked to be about the same shape and volume in all dimensions from the outside, but the old liner had more of a V shape to the back of the ankle pocket, which pushed my foot forward a bit, and a curve to the tongue that pushed my shin a little bit away from the cuff. The net result was that I was effectively more upright in the old liner. The Kryptons have adjustable lean, so dialing it back a notch gave me a similar lean with the zipfits as I had before. The zipfits really fit my leg well, much better than the old liner. Combining the change in lean with a slight loosening of the upper buckle and strap to get just a little more fore/back play for my leg resolved the quad and calf pain.  If anyone else is looking at zipfits I’d recommend that you check that yourold liner puts your heel close to the spine of the boot, and your calf is wrapped by the tongue without any gap to the shell of the boot. If the Kryptons didn’t have adjustable lean I would have been dead in the water in getting the zipfits to work for me.

 

On the 7th day I did a final dialing in of the boots by slightly loosening all the buckles and then adjusting the one buckle that seemed most off on either the left or right boot after each run. It had taken a while, but by the end of the day I was pretty sure that I was getting as much out of the liners as possible.

 

Overall, the control is excellent, but as the day goes on they do feel like there is an overall looseness. I’ll try adding some OMfit sometime. I’m also thinking about replacing the insoles. My foot is positioned a little differently in the boot and at this point I think they’re the weakest link in the chain.

 

Along with all the trial and error adjustments for fit I also struggled with getting the boots on and off. At first I was putting my foot in the liners, lacing them up, and then inserting the whole package into the boot and taking them off the same way. Unfortunately, the Kryptons have a membrane where the bottom of the tongue attaches to the boot and the liners kept snagging on it, which ended up mangling the membrane and making it harder and harder to get the liner in. I got around this by opening the tongue really wide and putting on the boot with the liner already in it. Without doing anything else this pushes the zipfit tongue out of the throat of the boot. To get it back I’ve run the laces only through the bottom two eyelets of the four eyelets on the zipfits. It’s a bit of a dance, but pushing the Krypton tongue out while yanking on the laces to keep the lower zipfit tongue in place lets me get the boot on without removing the liner first.

 

We have about an hour drive to the hill, so if I’m not doing the driving I’ll just put the boots on loosely for the drive and let my feet warm them up. If I am driving I’ve found that cranking the seat heater for the am emtpy seat and making a tent over the boots with my jacket warms the boots a little and makes them easier to get on. Both approaches don’t get the boots warm enough to really let the OMfit material flow though, but it’s enough to help with getting everything lined up properly and firmly buckled to start the day.

post #7 of 16

NoCapes,  Please go back to what LiquidFeet had to offer.  Which was Check the Zipfit site and read what they say.

You are not swiping the heal 2 or 3 or 4 times,  as they will state to do.  Which pushes the Omnifit uP at the heal pocket rearward area.  You have, in my best guess, pushed the Omnifit down,  which does not make for a good pocketing/grasping of the heal.  It would tend to nudge the heal forward,  and lack for a downward grasp of the heal.

post #8 of 16

And if you use your zipfits the reccommeded way..... leaving it on your foot while you take it in and out of your shell.... get a can of this  http://skibootslideon.com/usage.htm  The stuff works great...

 

 

SlideOnCan.gif 

post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 

@Noah

 

I went back to the zipfit site to see what they said about swiping.

 

"The ZipFit dynamic fitting process begins when you slide or “swipe” your heel down the slot in the back of the lining

If the liners are warm (+25°C) [ 77 F ] this works more effectively.Your heel bone “swipes” the OneMinuteFit© molding compound within the sealed supportive sack on either side of the heel and presses it into the special cone shaped heel huggers on either side of the heel and ankle bones."

 

By lifting and swiping your heel 3-4 times you can compress significant amounts of OMFit molding compound into the heel huggers...."

 

Normally this triple swiping action is not necessary. Once is enough as it is a part of the daily “hoisting” action to seat the heels under the heel huggers.  Yet swiping does help reprime the dynamic fitting system."

 

Is this the swipe you meant? When I tried it the molded fit got messed up and it took a while to get back in place, and there was no net change. It's still very good, will try some other things to see if I can get to great :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternSkiBum View Post
 

And if you use your zipfits the reccommeded way..... leaving it on your foot while you take it in and out of your shell.... get a can of this  http://skibootslideon.com/usage.htm  The stuff works great...

 

 

SlideOnCan.gif 

 

I'm avoiding taking the liners out because of an issue with the zipfit getting hung up on the membrane under the Krypton's tongue. I did find this comment on the zipfit site about leaving the liner in:

 

"If you want to leave the inner boot in the shell, there is a trick to get in without disturbing the molded support and comfort you have established from the previous day of skiing.

  • Insert the foot part way
  • Then hoist the back of the ZipFit upward to meet your heel. That way your toes will slide easily and comfortably into the toe box, and your heel slips under the heel huggers without any resistance from the stiff shell sidewalls.
  • Then use your heel to push your ZipFit inner boot heel deep into the shell's heel pocket."
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternSkiBum View Post

And if you use your zipfits the reccommeded way..... leaving it on your foot while you take it in and out of your shell.... get a can of this  http://skibootslideon.com/usage.htm  The stuff works great...


SlideOnCan.gif 

I've never seen that stuff, but lube is a good idea. For several years I've been using Silicone spray. Works fine. A couple strips of Gorilla duct tape up the inside spine to keep that piece at the top from snagging the liner sole. Makes it nice and slippery. Also rub some down onto the instep. Liners just slide right in slickety poo.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapes View Post
 

 

I'm avoiding taking the liners out because of an issue with the zipfit getting hung up on the membrane under the Krypton's tongue. I did find this comment on the zipfit site about leaving the liner in:

 

"If you want to leave the inner boot in the shell, there is a trick to get in without disturbing the molded support and comfort you have established from the previous day of skiing.

  • Insert the foot part way
  • Then hoist the back of the ZipFit upward to meet your heel. That way your toes will slide easily and comfortably into the toe box, and your heel slips under the heel huggers without any resistance from the stiff shell sidewalls.
  • Then use your heel to push your ZipFit inner boot heel deep into the shell's heel pocket."

NoCapes,  Your first sentence above.  I suggest a piece of thin plastic between the Zipfit and the Krypton;s tongue hang-up when getting into the

shell with the Zipfit on your foot;  though if what you've described is working good ,  then by all means continue.
  I initially used plastic cut from a milk carton before acquiring a 'store bought',  made for the situation, 'shoe-horn' style  to get past the inner shell

hangup on my Lange's.  Extremely difficult,  and hard on the Zipfits w/o it.

 

I like what the rest of your note says, the last bulet essentiall pushes the -omni fit or Flow- above the bulbish aspect of the heel.  This version I unearthed, noted following, would repeat that last bullet a few times.  Read on.

__ I did some re-research;  reading of Zipfit from copies I'd filed from years ago;  actually before the current

shoe-string style,  though the method is quite similar to what I was taught with the shoe-string type.

This copying was me cut & pasting what seemed relevant to me;  therefore it commences as below.
'''''''''
Step 3:  Insert foot into boot

 

* Using thin socks, slip foot into boot.   Slide heel

down back of liner and activate flow into the heel hugger channels.

* Toes will feel snug.

* Now grasp back of liner with one hand and hold down the shell with the other hand and

pump heel and liner up and down several times to fully seat the heel.

* Kicking heel on ground is not the beset method.   The heel only bounces out of the heel pocket, instead of getting it well seated .

 

Step 4:  Closing Boot

 

* Close the power strap on the liner firmly.  This wraps the liner and tongue securely  around the leg.

* Start at the top of the shell and close the two top buckles comfortably.

* Close the shell power strap and flex in the boot a few times to insure that the heel is well seated

and foot moves back to allow more toe room.  More toe room will occur when the boot is skied in. 

(the shell's power strap should be utilized as well as the power strap on the liner,  this insures that the

tongue moves with the ankle and gives optimum fore aft response)
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
The method I was taught would commence by:


** putting foot in liner,  [ this would tend to push flow down ]
** position heel into line pocket  
** Adjust liner tongue to fit ankle joint
** Tension shoe strings and clamp them
** Coil excess string and secure under liner power strap.
** insert liner w/ foot into the shell
** Now grasp back of liner with one hand and hold down the shell with the other hand and pump heel

and liner up and down several times to fully seat the heel.
  [ two, three, or four times seem right to me. You will get so you feel what is correct for that particular entry

.  Easing any rearward pressure on the up, and creating a bit on the down, as the Zipfit slides over the shell

heel pocket top curvature. This essentially pushes flow/omnifit away from the sides of the heel to

more-so above or atop the sides of the heel,  enabling better hold down of the heel ]
** Release power strap
** release string clamp
** re-tension strings & re-clamp them
** Coil excess string,  and tension and close the liner power strap over this string & clamp.
**  --then it would be as describe above,  closing the shell buckles; __
  __though in my case with older style (~2008) Lange WC four rung ladder latch catches,

I normally had to start with the lower cuff buckles before being -able- to catch either of the top ones & go top down.

 

  Lange has since phased in a six rung latch catch,  which I intend to  incorporate,  though another brand,

  as Lange changed where the perpendicular support bar is in relation to the cuff strap groove.  _Always something.!

 

Hopefully all is well with you,  your Krypton's and

 your Zipfits.


Edited by Noah - 1/21/16 at 7:31am
post #13 of 16

Anyone know where to buy more Omfit? I'm not sure whether zip fit is still in business.  There is no number to call, they don't seem to respond to emails and their Facebook page or blog hasn't seen a post in three years.

post #14 of 16

Contact the dealer nearest you.  they are still in business.  http://www.zipfit.com/dealerlist.html 

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpass View Post

Anyone know where to buy more Omfit? I'm not sure whether zip fit is still in business.  There is no number to call, they don't seem to respond to emails and their Facebook page or blog hasn't seen a post in three years.

If you find some and they will sell you a tube,post it up. That dealer list is old and many are either out of business or don't carry them any longer. If you in UT - you can get it inserted @ Snowbird, but they won't sell a tube.

Curious as to what you find - I could use a bit more in my tongue
post #16 of 16

I noticed that their dealer page was old myself. Unfortunately I'm in Connecticut and the nearest dealer to me is 3hrs away.  Good luck getting a hold of anyone at Zipfit!

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