or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Any helmets out there that fit like the old Marker Cheetah? [Esp. like to hear from former Cheetah owners.]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Any helmets out there that fit like the old Marker Cheetah? [Esp. like to hear from former Cheetah owners.]

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

I'd like to replace my current ski helmet, a c. 2006 Marker Cheetah (pictured below).  For those of you familiar with the unique fit of the Cheetah: Is there anything out there that fits like it?  I'd especially like to hear, from former Cheetah owners, if they've managed to find any helmet that works as a replacement.    Now would be a good time to look, since selection is at a maximum.

 

Details:

 

When I bought my Cheetah I tried on as many helmets as I could find, and none of them were comfortable.  I took a chance and mailed-ordered the Cheetah, and it fit perfectly.  It's old and should be replaced, but it's been discontinued and, as before, none of the newer helmets I've tried fit well (I look from time to time).  

 

Last year I spoke to a shop owner who used to sell it.  He remarked it's unfortunate they discontinued it, because its mold had a different shape from everything else on the market, and it thus fit people that couldn't fit well into anything else.  My skull seems to be a bit longer (front-to-back) and narrower than what's standard.

 

At the end of the season I took another look.  Limited selection, but here's what I found:

 

Shred medium -- not bad, but too short front-to-back, and so thick as to be a bit ungainly.
Briko -- too short on ears -- sides don't extend down far enough, also not quite the right shape inside
Uvex -- not right at all

 

I should also mention I want a hard-sided design, like the Marker.  I also don't like the ones that achieve fit with internal adjustments -- I like my head to be resting directly on the thin soft foam padding that covers the hard foam of the helmet.  This of course makes the helmet's shape more critical.  Finally, the lighter the better.

 

post #2 of 20


Look at the POC skull Comp.  If the Marker fitted, no point looking at Shred or Uvex (they are both the same shape - I amy be wrong but think they come from the same supplier).  If you dont need a FIS eligible sticker there are some great deals to be found on them the Skull Comp 2.0 since it is no longer race legal (except for Masters for next season).  An excellent helmet as well in my experience.  There is also the cheaper version (cant remember if it was skull X or something similar) but I prefer the full blown Comp

 

(And yes, I actually had a Cheetah briefly and it fitted well although I swapped it out for the POC) 

post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


Look at the POC skull Comp.  If the Marker fitted, no point looking at Shred or Uvex (they are both the same shape - I amy be wrong but think they come from the same supplier).  If you dont need a FIS eligible sticker there are some great deals to be found on them the Skull Comp 2.0 since it is no longer race legal (except for Masters for next season).  An excellent helmet as well in my experience.  There is also the cheaper version (cant remember if it was skull X or something similar) but I prefer the full blown Comp


Thanks ScotsSkier.  I take it you've tried on both the POC and Cheetah and found them similar?

 

What about the fit of the Head, Atomic, or Rossi helmets?

 

I called POC -- they said the Skull Comp is better than the Comp X, consistent with what you wrote.  However, they said the new FIS-legal Orbics are better than the Skull Comp 2.0, and the only difference between the $380 Orbic Comp and the $200 Orbic X is that the former has extra-strong material at the front of the helmet to keep the shell from cracking from repeated gate hits.  And the listed weight of the Orbic X is less than that of the Skull Comp 2.0 (thought their weights might not be accurate).  So the Orbic X is worth considering.  They said the Orbics have more padding than the Comps, but the same shell size, so they run a bit smaller, though they have the same shape.  Finally, for my oblong head shape, they recommended the Syapsis; unfortunately, that's soft-sided and has internal fit adjustment.


Edited by chemist - 9/25/15 at 12:52pm
post #4 of 20

 The old Atomic Redsters  fit approximately the same shape as Shred, with slightly more volume; haven't tried 2015/2016 ones.

post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 


Thanks ScotsSkier.  I take it you've tried on both the POC and Cheetah and found them similar?

 

What about the fit of the Head, Atomic, or Rossi helmets?

 

I called POC -- they said the Skull Comp is better than the Comp X, consistent with what you wrote.  However, they said the new FIS-legal Orbics are better than the Skull Comp 2.0, and the only difference between the $380 Orbic Comp and the $200 Orbic X is that the former has extra-strong material at the front of the helmet to keep the shell from cracking from repeated gate hits.  And the listed weight of the Orbic X is less than that of the Skull Comp 2.0 (thought their weights might not be accurate).  So the Orbic X is worth considering.  They said the Orbics have more padding than the Comps, but the same shell size, so they run a bit smaller, though they have the same shape.  Finally, for my oblong head shape, they recommended the Syapsis; unfortunately, that's soft-sided and has internal fit adjustment.


Yeah, i have the new Orbic Comp as well for FIS compliance but it feels a bit bulkier than the skull comp so for free skiing I am still using my skull comps.  As I say, if you don't need the FIS compliance sticker, try the skull comp.  I have seen thane being cleared at not much more than $100 which is a terrific deal for what was a $250 top quality helmet (and I applaud you for going for a hard shell rather than  a soft ear job!) 

 

Cant remember trying the Atomic or Rossi helmets - I think the Atomic might be worth a try as our head coach who is Atomic supported switched back to his Uvex from the atomic one as it fitted him better.  The Head helmet fitted more like the Uvex as i recall.    I would not be at all surprised if most helmets just come from a couple of producers/moulds just like boots and are labeled as required

 

Incidentally, am i the only one who has wondered why, when Head write "head" on their helmets, they dont write "foot" on their boots.....:D 

post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

Incidentally, am i the only one who has wondered why, when Head write "head" on their helmets, they dont write "foot" on their boots.....:D 

This is an important issue you raise, and I think it really deserves a separate multi-page thread.  :D  However, to comment briefly:  I believe they've been making boots much longer than helmets.  Hence, given that the Head boot is well-established, when they introduced the helmet IMO they should have called it the Foot helmet, for symmetry.  ;) 

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 The old Atomic Redsters  fit approximately the same shape as Shred, with slightly more volume; haven't tried 2015/2016 ones.


Thanks cantunamunch.

post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 

Just ordered a Skull Comp 2.0, with return privileges.  Will post what I find.  But would still welcome other suggestions, just in case it doesn't work for me.

 

Say, what about the Giro Streif?  It's also available for ~$100.


Edited by chemist - 9/26/15 at 2:13pm
post #9 of 20

The Giro Streif is a very nice helmet, no longer in production. The Streif has some carbon fibre in the shell, and as I recall it's the same design as the Talon. My wife skis in a Talon, and loves it. May buy another to just hold on to, as it took a lot of looking to find the right fit for her. In terms of head shape, the Giro works for a lot of people, as does a POC. Marco Sullivan skied in a Streif for years. He's now a POC athlete. That might be one with looking at. The only comment that I've ever heard is that some people think the ear flap part of the shell is a bit short. Others don't. It will surely meet your lightness criteria. That helmet design also seems to work with a lot of different goggles. My wife uses it with Shred, Smith, Oakley and POC goggles. 

 

I had my first look at a brand new Shred race helmet this AM. I thought the the older design had a ton of padding, but this new one {FIS compliant} has taken it to a new level. I presume it's very safe, as it looks almost cartoonish, to my eye, with so much padding. I tried one on just to get a few laughs. I'm a fan of the company, but I can't believe that the hemet looks like it does. Maybe it's just my eye. 

 

My hunch is that you'll really like the POC, coming from the cheetah. Another helmet that I'm quite positive will fit you is a Bern, but you may not like the design. I know a few guys {ex USST skiers} who were tough fits in helmets, who are in off the shelf Berns to free ski, and love the fit. I think both were in the Marker helmet at one time. I also think that the Bern looks a bit different with the visor, but I'm old school. I guess it's a very good helmet. 

 

Good luck. 

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post
 

The Giro Streif is a very nice helmet, no longer in production. The Streif has some carbon fibre in the shell, and as I recall it's the same design as the Talon. My wife skis in a Talon, and loves it. May buy another to just hold on to, as it took a lot of looking to find the right fit for her. In terms of head shape, the Giro works for a lot of people, as does a POC. Marco Sullivan skied in a Streif for years. He's now a POC athlete. That might be one with looking at. The only comment that I've ever heard is that some people think the ear flap part of the shell is a bit short. Others don't. It will surely meet your lightness criteria. That helmet design also seems to work with a lot of different goggles. My wife uses it with Shred, Smith, Oakley and POC goggles. 

 

I had my first look at a brand new Shred race helmet this AM. I thought the the older design had a ton of padding, but this new one {FIS compliant} has taken it to a new level. I presume it's very safe, as it looks almost cartoonish, to my eye, with so much padding. I tried one on just to get a few laughs. I'm a fan of the company, but I can't believe that the hemet looks like it does. Maybe it's just my eye. 

 

My hunch is that you'll really like the POC, coming from the cheetah. Another helmet that I'm quite positive will fit you is a Bern, but you may not like the design. I know a few guys {ex USST skiers} who were tough fits in helmets, who are in off the shelf Berns to free ski, and love the fit. I think both were in the Marker helmet at one time. I also think that the Bern looks a bit different with the visor, but I'm old school. I guess it's a very good helmet. 

 

Good luck. 


Thanks Muleski.   I also found the Shred (last year's) to be strikingly bulky.   It's so thick that it won't fit my Smith I/OS goggles -- they're too low-profile (i.e., the sides are too short), such that that the goggles are suspended off of my face.  OTOH, were I to know in advance I were going to sustain a high-impact crash, it felt like it would be nice to have on my head.

 

Does your wife have an oblong head shape like mine (i.e., one that's a bit narrower and longer, and who thus doesn't fit into the more rounded mold of a typical helmet?   And do you recall which Bern the USST guys were using?  All the ones I saw on their site were soft-sided.  

 

Marker is actually making helmets again, but I don't know if they're using the Cheetah mold (my guess is not, since they're probably having someone make them for them), and they're all soft-sided.

 

I just spoke to the the equipment manager at one of the online ski race equipment shops.  They sell Shred, Head, Rossi, Atomic, Briko, and POC helmets.  According to him, all except the Brikos are bowling balls (i.e., round in fit), the POC slightly more so than all the others.  Hopefully he's wrong -- I'll find out soon :D.  He thought the Briko would have the best fit, but I didn't like the one I tried on last year (don't recall the model, though).


Edited by chemist - 9/26/15 at 5:49pm
post #11 of 20

Hi, 

 

I would say that my wife's head shape is pretty average, but not super full and round. Our daughter has that round shape, and she was a fully comp'd athlete with Carrera, then after they pretty much changed their line-up, with POC. I know that my wife tried on a ton of helmets. And sadly, that's sometimes what it takes…which means ordering and returning a lot of them. 

 

My EX-USST friends are both in a soft sided Bern helmet, with a visor. I think it might be called a Watts. One of them had a carbon helmet last season. I wouldn't completely rule out a soft sided helmet, if I were you. One that fits well, and is well made, I believe offers a lot of protection. I'd at least think about it. BTW, pretty much every WC athlete that I've ever seen free skiing, was free skiing in a "softie."  Big mountain guys, doing some extreme stuff, all ski in softies.  My helmet's a Smith Vantage, and I know a number of my son's friends who ski for a living are in the same helmet. I believe that the fit is probably going to be easier in a soft sided helmet. And I don't think you give away much. I presume you're not skiing DH at 80 mph on injected hills, sliding in a speed suit. Not trying to be a jerk…..trying to point out that soft eared helmets are sold in big numbers for a reason….they're comfortable, warm,and I believe that they work. I feel like mine is nice and firm in the fit, with perhaps a better fit at the base of the back of my skull that I ever had in a full shell race helmet. I haven't had one in about 5 years, though. I've never had a POC, though I know countless people who love them. They also do a tremendous marketing job. Whether they are the safest helmet made, or not, they seem to have a huge number of believers among race parents. I'm convinced that they are great. 

 

But I do respect your desire to find a close fit in a full race helmet. I will say that I know a number of guys who were provided with the Marker Cheetah back in the day, and if you asked me I would describe them as not having your head shape. So what I've learned in this thread is news to me, and I'm wondering if they ever had a good fit. And as ScotsSkier has mentioned, the whole fit game has changed with the new FIS regs, now as well. 

 

Briko makes very, very good products. They have been in and out of the market here in the USA, due to the usual distribution confusion, etc. But the product has always been there. I skied in a Briko Forerunner for a long time, and before than in a Carbon race helmet. Great stuff, so I'd look into it. Another that's hard to find, but might fit, is a Dainesse. I know two guys in the helmet, and I just can't really think of their head shapes. I know the helmet is a good one. Just in case it pops up on your radar screen. 

 

I would definitely order a Steif, to check that one out, if it were me. The Talon is nice, too, as it has two panels that unscrew to increase ventilation when it warms up. But the Streif has a lotos carbon in it, and is light. Nice helmet. 

 

Good luck!

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thanks again Muleski!  My reason for going hardshell isn't protection, it's comfort.  I find the soft-sided ones press against my ears, while with a properly-fitting hard shell you've got a nice rigid pocket that surrounds but doesn't touch the ears.  Otherwise, a soft shell would be nice, both because they're lighter, and I could get BT audio.

 

My first helmet, bought in the early 90's, was a Boeri race helmet [I'd earlier mis-remembered this as Briko].  It wasn't perfect, but it fit better than anything else I tried, so I went with it.  Of course, the current Brikos are probably quite different.

 

It's too bad there's no site that gives accurate weights of all these helmets for comparison.


Edited by chemist - 9/26/15 at 8:42pm
post #13 of 20

I went from the Marker Cheetah to a POC Skull Comp. I thought I had lucked out when I found another Marker Cheetah xxl on-line. It didn't fit. I have trouble finding XXLs that fit. I even had to try on a bunch of POC xxls until one fit. I am completely happy with the POC.

post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by x10003q View Post
 

I went from the Marker Cheetah to a POC Skull Comp. I thought I had lucked out when I found another Marker Cheetah xxl on-line. It didn't fit. I have trouble finding XXLs that fit. I even had to try on a bunch of POC xxls until one fit. I am completely happy with the POC.

Thanks x10003q.  Nice to hear about another successful transition from a Cheetah to a POC.

 

But I'm confused when you say you found another Cheetah XXL online and it didn't fit -- I thought all Cheetahs came out of the same mold (unless you're saying they had poor QC and thus a lot of inter-unit variation).  

post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 

Thanks x10003q.  Nice to hear about another successful transition from a Cheetah to a POC.

 

But I'm confused when you say you found another Cheetah XXL online and it didn't fit -- I thought all Cheetahs came out of the same mold (unless you're saying they had poor QC and thus a lot of inter-unit variation).  

That 2nd Cheetah was a bummer. The bright side is that it fit my son.

post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 

 

@ScotsSkier: I just received my POC Skull Comp 2.0's (I ordered two, both in M/L, in case of inter-unit variation and, sure enough, one fit better than the other).  The following is about the better-fitting one:

 

You were right that the shape works for me.  But there are two problems:  

 

(A) Sizing.  While overall it seems to be right shape, the M/L (55-58 cm, according to POC) is a tight squeeze.  My head measures 55.5, and the Marker Cheetah I have is an M (58), so I figured the next size up (XL/XXL, 59 - 62) would be too large, which is why I ordered the M/L.

 

(B) The sides at the bottom front of the hemet curve right into my jaw joint (the foam there is heavily compressed).  By contrast, the sides on the ear pieces on the Cheetah end lower, and don't curve in as strongly (see attached pic).

 

So if you wouldn't mind, I have a several questions :):

 

(1) What sizes are/were you using in the Cheetah, Skull Comp, and Orbic X, and how do they compare for you in tightness?

(2) To what extent does the liner material compress with use?

(3) If the M/L Skull Comp's just a bit too tight, would the L Orbic X (57-58 cm, same fit as your Orbic Comp) be a little bigger? And would the sides come down a bit more?

(4) Ventilation.  I noticed this helmet, unlike the Cheetah, has no vents.  When I put it on it quickly felt a lot warmer and clammier than the Cheetah.  Have you found a difference (vs. the Cheetah) when using it?

(5) Is goggle sizing different with the Orbic X vs the Skull Comp (my goggles work with the Skull Comp, but if the Orbic X is thicker that might be a problem; e.g., with the Shred, my goggle sides weren't long enough for the foam to be able to reach my face).

 

[For those of you not familiar with POC's sizing, the Skull Comp comes in three sizes (XS/S,  M/L, and XL/XXL), while the Orbic comes in six (XS, S, M, L, XL, and XXL).]

post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 

Also, no one has mentioned the OSBE, with its integrated visor.  Anyone familiar with how it fits?

post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 

 

@ScotsSkier: I just received my POC Skull Comp 2.0's (I ordered two, both in M/L, in case of inter-unit variation and, sure enough, one fit better than the other).  The following is about the better-fitting one:

 

You were right that the shape works for me.  But there are two problems:  

 

(A) Sizing.  While overall it seems to be right shape, the M/L (55-58 cm, according to POC) is a tight squeeze.  My head measures 55.5, and the Marker Cheetah I have is an M (58), so I figured the next size up (XL/XXL, 59 - 62) would be too large, which is why I ordered the M/L.

 

(B) The sides at the bottom front of the hemet curve right into my jaw joint (the foam there is heavily compressed).  By contrast, the sides on the ear pieces on the Cheetah end lower, and don't curve in as strongly (see attached pic).

 

So if you wouldn't mind, I have a several questions :):

 

(1) What sizes are/were you using in the Cheetah, Skull Comp, and Orbic X, and how do they compare for you in tightness?

(2) To what extent does the liner material compress with use?

(3) If the M/L Skull Comp's just a bit too tight, would the L Orbic X (57-58 cm, same fit as your Orbic Comp) be a little bigger? And would the sides come down a bit more?

(4) Ventilation.  I noticed this helmet, unlike the Cheetah, has no vents.  When I put it on it quickly felt a lot warmer and clammier than the Cheetah.  Have you found a difference (vs. the Cheetah) when using it?

(5) Is goggle sizing different with the Orbic X vs the Skull Comp (my goggles work with the Skull Comp, but if the Orbic X is thicker that might be a problem; e.g., with the Shred, my goggle sides weren't long enough for the foam to be able to reach my face).

 

[For those of you not familiar with POC's sizing, the Skull Comp comes in three sizes (XS/S,  M/L, and XL/XXL), while the Orbic comes in six (XS, S, M, L, XL, and XXL).]


Hmm,  now you are taxing my old brain cells

 

In the Skull Comp I have 2 Mediums (they originally came in this size) and a M/L   All fit pretty much the same.  My Orbic Comp (dont have the orbic X) is also a M?L IIRC and it feels a slightly tighter fit but not excessive.

(BTW, following up on Muleski's comments on the new Shred race helmet, in my experience all the new ones feel a bit like a bowling ball at first.  that extra padding has to go somewhere!!)

 

The Cheetah as i recall was a 58/M

 

With the Orbic, I dont notice the sides coming down any differently, they seem pretty much the same there.  The POCs are reasonably snug around the face, not an issue for me but obviously impacting you.  The material does compress and fit to your shape with use.  I would also expect that after several seasons your Cheetah has become compressed to the max. May be why you are noticing it more.

 

WRT the overall fit, I would say the Orbic is going to be a smaller fit than the Skull comp.  From your description it sounds like you may need the larger XL/XXL shell (BTW, I assume that you are using the L liner???  :) ) or the XL in the Orbic

 

Also, with regard to the marked sizes, in my experience ignore them.  58 in a Briko is way different from 58 in other brands for instance.  In fact as i recall the Briko 58 is large as i found to my cost when trying to replace my old faithful Forerunner.  

 

i like it without vents, on my forerunner the vent was always closed but this is a personal thing.

 

I usually use a POC Iris Comp or Alpina WC goggle.  No issues on the Skull comp, both fit well for me.  Don't think I have tried the ORbic with anything other than the POC but assume the Alpina will also work for me 

post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


Hmm,  now you are taxing my old brain cells

 

In the Skull Comp I have 2 Mediums (they originally came in this size) and a M/L   All fit pretty much the same.  My Orbic Comp (dont have the orbic X) is also a M?L IIRC and it feels a slightly tighter fit but not excessive.

(BTW, following up on Muleski's comments on the new Shred race helmet, in my experience all the new ones feel a bit like a bowling ball at first.  that extra padding has to go somewhere!!)

 

The Cheetah as i recall was a 58/M

 

With the Orbic, I dont notice the sides coming down any differently, they seem pretty much the same there.  The POCs are reasonably snug around the face, not an issue for me but obviously impacting you.  The material does compress and fit to your shape with use.  I would also expect that after several seasons your Cheetah has become compressed to the max. May be why you are noticing it more.

 

WRT the overall fit, I would say the Orbic is going to be a smaller fit than the Skull comp.  From your description it sounds like you may need the larger XL/XXL shell (BTW, I assume that you are using the L liner???  :) ) or the XL in the Orbic

 

Also, with regard to the marked sizes, in my experience ignore them.  58 in a Briko is way different from 58 in other brands for instance.  In fact as i recall the Briko 58 is large as i found to my cost when trying to replace my old faithful Forerunner.  

 

i like it without vents, on my forerunner the vent was always closed but this is a personal thing.

 

I usually use a POC Iris Comp or Alpina WC goggle.  No issues on the Skull comp, both fit well for me.  Don't think I have tried the ORbic with anything other than the POC but assume the Alpina will also work for me 


Thanks ScotsSkier!  So your Cheetah was the same size as mine.  Yes, mine probably is a bit looser than when I got it, but at the same time it was comfortable right out of the box, while the POC is giving me a head squeeze.  [Having said that, even with the Cheetah, I always have to keep my curly (and thus bushy) hair short during ski season to keep the fit from getting too tight. :D]

 

Thanks for mentioning it comes with two different liners but yeah, I did try the L one.   I'll give POC a call this week and, armed with this info., ask them what they recommend.   [BTW, according to POC, the Orbic X and your Orbic Comp fit identically -- the only difference is extra reinforcement in the front of the latter's shell.]


Edited by chemist - 10/4/15 at 2:16pm
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 

I just spoke to POC.  They said:

 

1) The M and L Orbic X's bracket the M/L Skull Comp in size (the M's a bit smaller, the L's a bit bigger), so the L Orbic X should fit me.

 

2) The sides of the L Orbic X will come down lower than those on the M/L Skull Comp, both because of size and helmet design.

 

3) The Orbic X is both more protective and lower-profile than the Skull Comp.  [The Orbic X is not, in spite of what they told me earlier, identical to the Orbic Comp except for less thickness in the front shell.  Rather, the Orbic Comp has extra thickness is in the liner in the front and sides (extra EPS), which makes it more protective, and also bulkier, than the Orbic X.  So the Orbic X should not suffer from the same bowling-ball effect as the Orbic Comp.]   

 

4) They did have some manufacturing-variation issues with the Skull Comp, but they've corrected those and I should not experience that with the Orbic X.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Any helmets out there that fit like the old Marker Cheetah? [Esp. like to hear from former Cheetah owners.]