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What ________ should I get? - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

Well you are assuming they all weigh the same. Us Clydesdales will need our own thread(s).


From my experience:  even a 200+ beginner needs something soft enough to bend at low speeds.   Granted it was a whole lot easier to hold an edge once I went a size longer than the store originally sold me, but it was still the same beginner-intermediate carver.

 

It wasn't until I was moving a little faster and standing on the edge a little harder that skis with some metal entered the picture.

post #32 of 46
I was advised as you say and didn't buy those skis with metal layups but was trying them at the next demo day with little problem. The window of suitability for beginner-intermediate skis is too small at 230+ lb. Just saying...
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

I was advised as you say and didn't buy those skis with metal layups but was trying them at the next demo day with little problem. The window of suitability for beginner-intermediate skis is too small at 230+ lb. Just saying...

 

That's a good point:  it's too easy to outgrow them.

 

But I still don't know how stiff a ski would have made sense right at the start.  My Dynastar Speed Cross (no metal) will bend into a very low-speed, low-angle turn on essentially flat ground, if I'm far enough forward.  Back just a little, and they aren't doing it.  Those roll-at-the-ankle railroad track drills the instructor had me doing would have been tough to pull off on those skis, as a beginner.  And being on a pair of skis that didn't go where I (thought I) was telling them to go would have been scary.

 

Starting as a beginner w. what I know now, I'd probably still go with the carvers, just with the longer ones.

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowObstacle View Post
 

 

That's a good point:  it's too easy to outgrow them.

 

But I still don't know how stiff a ski would have made sense right at the start.  My Dynastar Speed Cross (no metal) will bend into a very low-speed, low-angle turn on essentially flat ground, if I'm far enough forward.  Back just a little, and they aren't doing it.  Those roll-at-the-ankle railroad track drills the instructor had me doing would have been tough to pull off on those skis, as a beginner.  And being on a pair of skis that didn't go where I (thought I) was telling them to go would have been scary.

 

Starting as a beginner w. what I know now, I'd probably still go with the carvers, just with the longer ones.

 

Just to be clear here : Metal layers makes a ski torsionally stiff so it is not easily twisted. The metal does not make the ski stiffer when you flex the ski as that is accomplished by using different stiffer materials in the core or other lay ups or construction methods such as a double torsion box which also adds strength.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

Well you are assuming they all weigh the same. Us Clydesdales will need our own thread(s).


Also assuming all beginners ski slowly.

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioskier View Post

You know funny thing about the guy that skis 115's on ice is that typically they aren't beginners.

The typical epic post starts out as I am a new skier that went on a trip with a friend and loved it. I have no idea how to ski even though I feel like I'm an intermediate. Then he gets responses that say you need to fly to ski town x and spend $1,500 on custom fitted boots and you need to find a place that demos the following $1,000 skis because they are top quality. If you don't buy ski x then you won't be able to do an Alaskan heli trip in a year when you are an "expert". So beginner skier sees $1,500 on boots and still need to see rental shop in hopes they have high end demos that are at mountain resorts but newbie is headed to perfect north Indiana to find that demo ski x sucks. Demo ski x that can really rip for an expert that is skiing 12 inches of fresh powder really sucks for a first time skiing on boilerplate ice that couldn't find the edge of a 72 waisted ski yet is on some wide waisted ski due to a expert telling him he needed that. So after the miserable experience on a sheet of ice where even the best skiers are not enjoying you tend to find a new post from skier in the marketplace forum selling off the custom boots for $100 including shipping with about 1 hour on them.

I guess that is how the normal ski bum affords the latest gear while bussing tables......

I'm sorry you've had poor experiences with gear advice here. In my experience, I've never heard of a beginner, or even an expert skier being advised to spend anywhere near $1500 for boots, nor have I ever heard any advice by people posting here who actually sell gear advocating a new skier spend or demo $1000 dollar skis. If you've received that sort of advice, it's doubtful that it came from someone in the industry.

If asked for an appropriate ski for a beginner that will get them from day one through the learning curve to upper level intermediate and possibly beyond, I can think of 3-4 different skis, none which cost over $499.00, most less even with a binding. A boot? Depends a bit on the size of the skier, but budgeting $300-$400 will probably get you a very suitable boot properly fitted with necessary mods from a reputable shop. A decent trim to fit footbed is around 40-45$. These will work well for many skiers if fitted and trimmed properly. All the aforementioned are 15-16 product. One could easily save $200- 300 or even more on 14-15 product.
post #37 of 46
It's easy . Just buy a Fis slalom and a fis GS ski! biggrin.gif
post #38 of 46
@markojp

I was really joking about some of the threads I have seen. I have really had good advice on any questions I've asked. However I have seen some gear threads that turn laughable.
post #39 of 46
If we accept that this forum is not strictly a skiing advice website, but rather allow that any skiing topic may provide the means to discuss anything, including our personal biases and philosophies on the given topic, well then the forum serves that function well. It's not just about addressing the OP. I may start a thread; I don't own or control the thread.

While we as a community probably offer up more suggestions than a newbie can readily utilize, I think most newbies can also tell when they've gotten what they needed. At least I hope the OP gets what they need. In this case they stop posting; they're not invested in the resolution to any debate or contentious issue. So they get what they need, leave (often without any kind of "good-bye") and the next 20 pages are for our own benefit.
post #40 of 46

I see an awful lot of responses to relatively new skiers that say to pay close attention to their boots, and then get whatever beginner/intermediate ski they can afford with the money left over - heck, I've seen offers to sell or give level-appropriate skis to posters. I haven't seen much blather about expensive skis or specific models until we get to questions like powder skis, fat skis, skis for a particular trip, etc etc.

 

And when I (as a non-newbie, at least I hope so) ask "What ski should I get for X?", I appreciate the blather! There are a lot of good nuggets in there that I appreciate and absorb, even if I don't take the advice given. But I give a bit more guidance than "I would like to buy a ski - which one should I get?"

post #41 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioskier View Post

@markojp

I was really joking about some of the threads I have seen. I have really had good advice on any questions I've asked. However I have seen some gear threads that turn laughable.

First, your joking was not taken as that, the humor was missed by a good amount and can confuse newcomers especially. Second, YES. Many threads do turn laughable for a couple of reasons. What I see mainly is the self serving suggestion, these tend to be two types, the first is to validate their own purchase and second, the obscure suggestion. The latter is one that they need to show more of what they think they know and to impress more than help...usually in a very long winded post many times on a ski they never even skied. Both cases are dangerous and all too common. 


Edited by Philpug - 9/27/15 at 2:35pm
post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

If we accept that this forum is not strictly a skiing advice website, but rather allow that any skiing topic may provide the means to discuss anything, including our personal biases and philosophies on the given topic, well then the forum serves that function well. It's not just about addressing the OP. I may start a thread; I don't own or control the thread.

Here's a little thread drift, but I think about this every now and then. IMHO, we're not all here solely to answer questions and offer advice. I see forums like this as more of a community, with discussions, humor, and all the different back-and-forth conversational aspects of any community. Info and advice is nice, great actually, but I don't see it as the sole, or even the main reason for a forum, or this one anyway. I guess it all depends on people's expectations. People that come in without lurking (kind of the number 1 unwritten rule for forums) and without searching but expecting focused and direct information seem kind of entitled...unless they're funny or cute. wink.gif
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


I'm sorry you've had poor experiences with gear advice here. In my experience, I've never heard of a beginner, or even an expert skier being advised to spend anywhere near $1500 for boots, nor have I ever heard any advice by people posting here who actually sell gear advocating a new skier spend or demo $1000 dollar skis. If you've received that sort of advice, it's doubtful that it came from someone in the industry.

If asked for an appropriate ski for a beginner that will get them from day one through the learning curve to upper level intermediate and possibly beyond, I can think of 3-4 different skis, none which cost over $499.00, most less even with a binding. A boot? Depends a bit on the size of the skier, but budgeting $300-$400 will probably get you a very suitable boot properly fitted with necessary mods from a reputable shop. A decent trim to fit footbed is around 40-45$. These will work well for many skiers if fitted and trimmed properly. All the aforementioned are 15-16 product. One could easily save $200- 300 or even more on 14-15 product.

 

I agree.  I would like to add though that at least here in CO if you use the recommended fitters on here or any that involve a pedorthist the price might be a bit more than $300-$400.  Not saying you can't get a good setup and fit for under $400.  You can.  And any recommendation to check out Surefoot has the possibility of getting close to that $1500 if you include everything.  I can't remember the exact quote but my wife was quoted >$1200.  To me it is worth the $600 +/-  it might cost to get the right shell with the right liner and footbed right from the start from a really good fitter. 

post #44 of 46

I think people should try to answer the OP's question. With beginners/low intermediates advice to get good properly fitted boots and take lessons may be appropriate. But too many ski inquiries from more experienced skiers wind up with people trying to give the OP ski lessons on line, or telling them they don't need skis, they need a lesson, or better boots.  Unless you know for a fact that is the case it would be best to confine one's comments to the ski.  Or someone asks for advice on a powder ski and a bunch of people try to tell them what they really need is an FIS slalom race ski.

 

Frankly the majority of us are not that qualified to give advice about skis or how to ski (the person who started this thread certainly excepted), although that hasn't stopped me from giving advice, I have to confess. Except for those who have tried a very large number of skis in a lot of different categories--people like Philpug and others who make a point of going to public or industry demo  days--when we do give advice most of us would do best to advise about the general specs of a ski we think will work for the OP, or if we recommend a ski that we've liked, give an idea of what we're comparing it to. Example--I might recommend the Atomic Automatic 117 as a forgiving, easy to turn soft snow ski for a not particularly aggressive medium weight skier, with the caveat that it's the only ski in its category I've tried.

post #45 of 46
As someone who recently took a while to get the advice I needed (whilst unwittingly annoying several people), I think it's important to note that you guys have a rhythm of your own, that is often indecipherable to outsiders. As a Brit, who's spent several years living in Spain & Italy, it was particularly hard for me to understand that rhythm.

It was much like the first time I arrived in a ski resort & it was filled with egotistical, self-proclaimed experts who were constantly dishing out advice to anyone & everyone.

That said, there is a wealth of knowledge here and it's all borne of experience & not just ego. You guys should be proud of the community you have & the way you help newbies.

Most of you would probably consider me a newbie & I was treated that way. In the UK, I've skied more than 95% of people will in their lifetime and I learnt 4 winters ago at 30. Here, the experience is overwhelming to me, like mine is to my British friends. Everything is relative.

As a reformed salesman, I firmly believe in asking good questions. But the one suggestion in this thread that I love is having a few go-to skis at different price points, experience levels and applications. For some people it may be difficult to demo. Or perhaps they've seen a deal on a pair. Maybe they don't have access to particular brands where they are. This would alleviate those issues and help more people to enjoy the sport we all love.
post #46 of 46

As a returning skier I find EpicSki very helpful for equipment decisions because:

1)  Reading about the different skis (either manufacturer propaganda or most ski reviews) simply tells me that pretty much every ski is 'best' or "I liked this one".

2)  As evidenced by the wide range of opinions here, your are just as likely to get personal opinion when you walk into a ski shop and ask:  "What ski should I buy?" -- especially as you may be asking a high ski kid trying to earn a commission on his first job...   His experience and bias may be with skiing trees and park & pipe while mine is trekking or powder or ....  And, in addition, he will certainly be selling you what he has to sell rather than what would be best for you...   I ski Kastle -- yet most of the kids in the ski shop I go to don't even know what they are -- because they stopped selling them years ago.  I find that kind of scary.

 

I want to know WHY that ski is "best" -- FOR ME!  Because, what is best depends on a huge number of variables -- including personal preferences.   I want to make an informed decision and I don't want other people making that decision for me....  But unlike most high priced technical goods, there are few specs that you can look up and rely on to evaluate skis...  Plus, with skis, many of those specs interrelate with each other to change the behavior of a particular ski...

 

It is better to first get an answer to the question of what TYPE of ski would make me happiest ? (and, again, everyone will have an opinion).    And THEN start down the path of picking a particular ski...

 

In short, I trust neither the reviews & manufacturer propaganda nor the kid in the ski shop to tell me what I should be skiing.  I simply want to be able to make my own informed decision -- and for that, discussion such as occur here are the best tool...

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