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better glade / mogul ski for 220lb guy

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

So i am rough in glades and moguls compared to my peers. 

 

I ski about 30 times a year , I am 6'2" and 220lbs and 26 years old. 

 

I am desperately trying to get better at moguls and steeper glades (i am trying to drop weight this year, along with doing some glade clinics (last year i was at alta and whistler when the glade clinics were at my local mountain)). 

 

i generally for like 18 days in the east coast (doing the max pass this year so killington tremblant stratton sunday river etc) and 12 days out west. 

 

 

however i think my skis may be an issue

 

heres my ski quiver 

2014 178cm rossignol experience 88s

2015 188cm rossignol Super 7s  117 underfoot

2009 176cm volkl tigersharks (77 underfoot). 

 

 

I suck with all of them. however when i switch with my buddy he has some volkl rtm 75s (75 underfoot but not as stiff as my tigersharks) i am night and day quicker in moguls. And on some step glades i cant really do them unless i switch skis with him and he takes my experience 88s (we both have the same boot shell size). 

 

 

so should i try and get something softer and narrower underfoot while i am practicing moguls and glades and then maybe i will be better on the 88s? I was thinking the volkl RTM 73s in 173 cm.

 

 

we have alot of hard pack no snow days on the east where i wouldnt mind being on something narrower underfoot. I just wanted some other opinions. thanks 


Edited by yuik - 9/14/15 at 8:44pm
post #2 of 22

You are on the right track in wanting something narrower and softer and also the third characteristic that you didn't hit on..less shape. Your E88's and Tigersharks have flared tips and tails which catch in the bumps. A couple of skis come to mind for you...

 

Blizzard Latigo

Nordica NRGy80 

Scott Black Majic

 

All three of these skis with their early rise in the tip and tail along with a complaint flex make them really good all mountain skis that are very good in the bumps. Their shapes are also good in the glades when they are firm but a bit more width would be better in the bumps but you can get that with the ski you replace your 88's with. 

 

If you want to go to that 88-90mm range

Blizzard Brahma

Nordica NRG90

Scott The Ski

Armada Invictus 89Ti

Atomic Vantage 90CTi

 

These will be better in the glades but not as good in the bumps and more overlap with you E88. 

 

Skis in Bold are my top suggestion for your size & weight

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

You are on the right track in wanting something narrower and softer and also the third characteristic that you didn't hit on..less shape. Your E88's and Tigersharks have flared tips and tails which catch in the bumps. A couple of skis come to mind for you...

 

Blizzard Latigo

Nordica NRGy80 

Scott Black Majic

 

All three of these skis with their early rise in the tip and tail along with a complaint flex make them really good all mountain skis that are very good in the bumps. Their shapes are also good in the glades when they are firm but a bit more width would be better in the bumps but you can get that with the ski you replace your 88's with. 

 

If you want to go to that 88-90mm range

Blizzard Brahma

Nordica NRG90

Scott The Ski

Armada Invictus 89Ti

Atomic Vantage 90CTi

 

These will be better in the glades but not as good in the bumps and more overlap with you E88. 

 

Skis in Bold are my top suggestion for your size & weight

awesome post for the guys on the top which are around 78-80 underfoot what length should i go with?

 

and for the bottom what length do you suggest. 

 

thanks so much for that quality post. Honestly never heard of any of them besides Scotts The Ski (our demo days are really limited in NY). 

post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

You are on the right track in wanting something narrower and softer and also the third characteristic that you didn't hit on..less shape. Your E88's and Tigersharks have flared tips and tails which catch in the bumps. A couple of skis come to mind for you...

 

Blizzard Latigo 78mm

Nordica NRGy80 80mm

Scott Black Majic 78mm

 

All three of these skis with their early rise in the tip and tail along with a complaint flex make them really good all mountain skis that are very good in the bumps. Their shapes are also good in the glades when they are firm but a bit more width would be better in the bumps but you can get that with the ski you replace your 88's with. 

 

If you want to go to that 88-90mm range

Blizzard Brahma 88mm

Nordica NRG90 90mm

Scott The Ski 92mm

Armada Invictus 89Ti 89mm

Atomic Vantage 90CTi 90mm

 

These will be better in the glades but not as good in the bumps and more overlap with you E88. 

 

Skis in Bold are my top suggestion for your size & weight

awesome post for the guys on the top which are around 78-80 underfoot what length should i go with?

 

and for the bottom what length do you suggest. 

 

thanks so much for that quality post. Honestly never heard of any of them besides Scotts The Ski (our demo days are really limited in NY). 

You need to be in the 180-185 range for you size, basically the longest length for any of them. I filled in the widths. 

post #5 of 22


I am 6'5 and 215 lbs. and ski lots of moguls.  There are plenty of good choices (Volkl Mantra comes to mind), but the main issue is that a big guy needs a stiffer ski, but stiff skis suck in the bumps.  For me the best is an even flexing ski so that once you get on it you can ride it around the bump without any surprises.  The real killer is a stiff tail.  Bumps continually try to push you into the back seat, so a stiff tip puts you back there faster and a stiff tail punishes you once you are there.  A softer tail allows you to continue slowing down through the end of each turn, as opposed to being accelerated out of it by a hard tail.  Stiff skis force you to attack the bumps, which becomes a losing proposition pretty quickly.  You cannot beat the mountain because it will always outlast you, so get an even flexing ski and make love to the bumps instead.  I would suggest a ski in the 80-95 mm waist range and about an 16-18 m turn radius.


Edited by mudfoot - 9/15/15 at 7:26am
post #6 of 22
Interesting reading. I also want to really work on moguls this year after getting thrown around a lot last year during my trip to Killington. For the Poconos, my E83 in 184 cm have been fine as a big intermediate, but wonder if these are too much like the OP with his E88 to really work in the bumps. The E83 is a moderate-stiff flex, softer than the E88, but have been good for a big intermediate like myself. Narrow enough and soft enough in the tail for moguls? Good enough to keep for this in the long run?
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I am 6'5 and 215 lbs. and ski lots of moguls.  There are plenty of good choices (Volkl Mantra comes to mind), but the main issue is that a big guy needs a stiffer ski, but stiff skis suck in the bumps.  For me the best is an even flexing ski so that once you get on it you can ride it around the bump without any surprises.  The real killer is a stiff tail.  Bumps continually try to push you into the back seat, so a stiff tip puts you back there faster and a stiff tail punishes you once you are there.  A softer tail allows you to continue slowing down through the end of each turn, as opposed to being accelerated out of it by a hard tail.  Stiff skis force you to attack the bumps, which becomes a losing proposition pretty quickly.  You cannot beat the mountain because it will always outlast you, so get an even flexing ski and make love to the bumps instead.  I would suggest a ski in the 80-95 mm waist range and about an 16-18 m turn radius.

 

 

isnt the mantra stiff as hell? everyone says its amazing on groomers and hardpark so i figured it would be rough in the bumps. 

 

mind you I am a pretty mediocre mogul skier and a rough steep glade skier (mostly because i am worried about messing up). on moguls i perform better because I am not afraid of hitting a tree if i go too fast. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

Interesting reading. I also want to really work on moguls this year after getting thrown around a lot last year during my trip to Killington. For the Poconos, my E83 in 184 cm have been fine as a big intermediate, but wonder if these are too much like the OP with his E88 to really work in the bumps. The E83 is a moderate-stiff flex, softer than the E88, but have been good for a big intermediate like myself. Narrow enough and soft enough in the tail for moguls? Good enough to keep for this in the long run?

 

 

yeah i cant wait to use the max pass. At killington I was fine on my 88s but not powder skis in the glades off of ramshead. 

 

But then we hit some steeper ones like somewhere and nowhere (by skye peak) and thats where i was really slow until i switched to my friends volkl rtm 75s. 

 

I tried to get vastly different skies everytime so i think i will go with Scotts The Majic or another one from his top list. And i will try and demo the mantra on a trip out west (those seem pretty popular and easy to find as a rental). Thats why from my tigersharks i got the experience 88 for a bit more float and less stiffness and weight. then i got the super 7s instead of the squad 7s because they had no metal in them so way softer than the 88s and way wider for purely powder. 

post #8 of 22

I have at least a half dozen friends of various weights who love the Mantras at Telluride, which is mostly big steep bumps.  I demoed a pair of the 2013/14 model at T-ride and really liked them.  They are not as stiff as they used to be, and now that they have added rocker and a mellower flex they are not a bad bump ski, particularly for a bigger guy.  Just a suggestion.

 

Scotts have a reputation for making a nicely flexing ski, but I am not personally familiar with most of the other options listed here.  From my experience the bottom line is to avoid stiff tails at all costs.  After that it is personal preference.  Let us know how whatever you buy works out this season.

post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post

 

 

mind you I am a pretty mediocre mogul skier and a rough steep glade skier (mostly because i am worried about messing up).

 

Yeh; you're going to need to change that mental space no matter what ski you're on.

post #10 of 22

Based on your comments it sounds like you may get in the backseat when the going gets rough. I find it helps to loosen the top buckle on my boots a little in the bumps to help me stay forward. Keeping the tips on the snow is critical and a useful image. You might also find that changing the forward lean or softening the flex on your boots a little will give you more control in the bumps and powder.  Stiff boots give your skiing a hair trigger feel, but I like mine to be a bit more forgiving.

post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

Yeh; you're going to need to change that mental space no matter what ski you're on.

your 100% right. hopefully practice some real training by a clinic can change that. I never enjoyed moguls but started doing them because I think it will make me a better glade skier. I definitly got better at moguls, glades are another story.

 

i think because my friends smaller softer RTM 75s i can slow myself down faster and turn quicker i lean forward more and do steeper glades right where I am more nervious on the experience 88s or my powder skis. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 

Based on your comments it sounds like you may get in the backseat when the going gets rough. I find it helps to loosen the top buckle on my boots a little in the bumps to help me stay forward. Keeping the tips on the snow is critical and a useful image. You might also find that changing the forward lean or softening the flex on your boots a little will give you more control in the bumps and powder.  Stiff boots give your skiing a hair trigger feel, but I like mine to be a bit more forgiving.

thats a good point, and sadly i just bought stiffer boots this year so ill need to try that too with my old boots. would you want the forward lean to be more or less extreme? 

 

i am definitly too in the back seat on steep glades compared to how i ski on similiar moguls or less steep glades. 

post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post
 

your 100% right. hopefully practice some real training by a clinic can change that. I never enjoyed moguls but started doing them because I think it will make me a better glade skier. I definitly got better at moguls, glades are another story.

 

i think because my friends smaller softer RTM 75s i can slow myself down faster and turn quicker i lean forward more and do steeper glades right where I am more nervious on the experience 88s or my powder skis. 

 

thats a good point, and sadly i just bought stiffer boots this year so ill need to try that too with my old boots. would you want the forward lean to be more or less extreme? 

 

i am definitly too in the back seat on steep glades compared to how i ski on similiar moguls or less steep glades. 

 

Confidence leads to being more forward/aggressive.  Keeping the tips on the snow is the only way to ski bumps in control.  You can't tail gun without continuing to accelerate.  My half joking advice to friends for skiing steep bumps has always been to "lead with your face and hope the rest comes around."  Hands forward or everything else is too far back.

 

Generally, more boot forward lean is better in the bumps, but this is changing with the new boots and skis.  If you have a ski with tip rocker and you push the tips too hard they tend to wash out, so  rockered skis work better when skied more from the middle, and consequently new boots have less forward lean.  25 years ago some top line Langes had 23 decrees of forward lean, and now they have about 12 degrees.  When I got new boots last year I experimented.  Did 6 runs in a row on the same slope (crud & bumps) with different combinations of tightness on my top two boot buckles every run.  Maybe loosening the second buckle down with the top buckle tight feels best for you, and maybe it's the opposite.  If your boots have a forward lean adjustment try changing it and see what happens. It will probably feel really awkward for a few runs and then once you dial into the new balance point you may love it, so give it a chance.  Be aware that lots of forward lean may feel good for skiing but not allow you to straighten up enough between turns (or in the lift line) to completely relax your quads, so your legs will tire a lot faster.  All things being equal, you legs will last longer if your boots are more upright, so you need to find the happy medium.

 

Another factor contributing to trouble in the bumps is skis that are too sharp in the tips and tails.  You can be on a great ski but if the tips and tails are not dulled a little they will be hooky when you weight the front, and the tails will not release quickly and smoothly at the end of the turn, both of which are deadly in the bumps. I guess what I am saying is that you have first rate equipment, but don't be afraid to experiment and tweak it to fit your body and personal ski style. Too many people are fighting their equipment to some extent, instead of having it totally work for them, and they don't even know it.

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I am 6'5 and 215 lbs. and ski lots of moguls.  There are plenty of good choices (Volkl Mantra comes to mind), 

 

That is an unusual recommendation. Especially for the 3rd gen models (2012-2014). Even with the so call tip rocker, the 3rd gen Mantra are whole lot of ski for most people.    

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 

I have at least a half dozen friends of various weights who love the Mantras at Telluride, which is mostly big steep bumps.  I demoed a pair of the 2013/14 model at T-ride and really liked them.  They are not as stiff as they used to be, and now that they have added rocker and a mellower flex they are not a bad bump ski, particularly for a bigger guy.  Just a suggestion.

 

Scotts have a reputation for making a nicely flexing ski, but I am not personally familiar with most of the other options listed here.  From my experience the bottom line is to avoid stiff tails at all costs.  After that it is personal preference.  Let us know how whatever you buy works out this season.

There has be be a good 5 generations of Mantras. The first red ones that they built their reputation on, then as they went from 94 to 96 to 98 to the last 100mm and zero camber the changed and some will say better and some will say for the worse. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I am 6'5 and 215 lbs. and ski lots of moguls.  There are plenty of good choices (Volkl Mantra comes to mind), 

 

That is an unusual recommendation. Especially for the 3rd gen models (2012-2014). Even with the so call tip rocker, the 3rd gen Mantra are whole lot of ski for most people.    

Not a ski that makes me say "I'm going to ski me some bumps, lets grab the Mantra's" But @KingGrump and I are not 6'5" 215lb. 

post #15 of 22

I'm 6'4" and 210lbs.  The list of skis I would prefer in the bumps instead of a Mantra is quite long.  Mind you, I've only ever skied the late model, zero camber Mantra.

post #16 of 22

I forgot there were a black one and a white one prior to my red. The red ones are 96. They were sweet. the 98 ones I got in 2010 were much beefier. 

At that height & weight, the pre 2015 Mantra would probably be OK in Telluride but the OP is skiing Killington.  

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I am 6'5 and 215 lbs. and ski lots of moguls.  There are plenty of good choices (Volkl Mantra comes to mind), but the main issue is that a big guy needs a stiffer ski, but stiff skis suck in the bumps.  For me the best is an even flexing ski so that once you get on it you can ride it around the bump without any surprises.  The real killer is a stiff tail.  Bumps continually try to push you into the back seat, so a stiff tip puts you back there faster and a stiff tail punishes you once you are there.  A softer tail allows you to continue slowing down through the end of each turn, as opposed to being accelerated out of it by a hard tail.  Stiff skis force you to attack the bumps, which becomes a losing proposition pretty quickly.  You cannot beat the mountain because it will always outlast you, so get an even flexing ski and make love to the bumps instead.  I would suggest a ski in the 80-95 mm waist range and about an 16-18 m turn radius.

All good! And I would add that in the east, bumps ( and the rest) can be icy ( I ski at Tremblant mostly) and you need a ski stiff enough torsionnally to be able to deal with icy conditions too...

At 210 pounds, I had the 2014 Mantra in 184 and it can be fun in bumps but is a lot of work in smalls bumps like in the Windigo... I would prefer 1: the Fischer Motive 86  and the Brahma (or 2nd: motive 95 and the Bonafide)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

Interesting reading. I also want to really work on moguls this year after getting thrown around a lot last year during my trip to Killington. For the Poconos, my E83 in 184 cm have been fine as a big intermediate, but wonder if these are too much like the OP with his E88 to really work in the bumps. The E83 is a moderate-stiff flex, softer than the E88, but have been good for a big intermediate like myself. Narrow enough and soft enough in the tail for moguls? Good enough to keep for this in the long run?

Find them too soft...

post #18 of 22

This is a shameless plug, to a large degree, with the less than invisible hand of self interest clearly out on the table. I think a Brahma might be a possible choice as well. I know a lot of bigger guys who have made nice advances in their skiing on the ski. It's beefy ski, with two layers of metal and vertical sidewalls. It doesn't have a really deep sidecut, and with the flip core design and rocker, it allows somebody who's not yet making super consistent turns to skid, pivot, "slarve." Perhaps with a lesson or two, or some bump coaching {even from friends who are strong skiers}, getting centered over the ski, controlling his turns and speed, etc, the OP will do the same, in terms of gains in skill and confidence. 

 

At any rate, I have an absolutely mint pair of 187cm Brahma's for sale, barely broken in, on the gear forum. Surprised that I still have them, given the condition and price. Might be worth a try. I'm about 200 lbs these days. Love the ski, but don't use it enough to keep it. I tend to go narrower, or wider, and I'm not searching out bumps in the East these days. If I were, I'd keep them. BTW, I'm absolutely convinced that's the length for you, not a 180cm. When I'm asked about length of these skis, I mention that my 145 lbs daughter skis a 180cm Bonafide on every kind of surface. 

 

I've got a couple generations of the earlier Mantra's, and wouldn't think that it's the right ski for the OP. I could sell you a pair of those, but I wouldn't feel right about it, at all. I've skied the Latigo, and I think of you were looking for a ski that you'd use just in the bumps, and in not very deep {or older} snow in most Eastern glades, it could be a really good choice, as well. 

 

I'd pay attention to Phil's list. Good advice. I'm familiar with every place that you've mentioned skiing. You're not skiing at Telluride. Or, not often! I split my skiing between the rock hard in Northern New England, and the Rockies, and for the most part have an entirely different group of skis in each spot. The Brahma and the Bonafide are two skis that I've skied quite a bit in both places in recent years. But I'm not skiing the Bonafide much in the conditions that you'll encounter 8/10 days in New England. I think that in general, you'd be well served by a bit longer ski, and one that is still torsionally stiff enough to give you the edge hold that you'll need on firm snow, as Mogsie mentions. Your size is a factor, too, and will be a bigger one as you improve as a skier, and work the ski more. 

 

Good luck. You'll have a lot more confidence in the bumps and trees with more mileage under your belt, and a ski change, IMO. 


Edited by Muleski - 9/16/15 at 7:39am
post #19 of 22

Instead of buying skis why not buy ski lessons? Then, after the ski instructor has worked with the OP in the moguls, ask him/her for ski purchase advise?

post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post
 

Instead of buying skis why not buy ski lessons? Then, after the ski instructor has worked with the OP in the moguls, ask him/her for ski purchase advise?

 

While I think this is usually sound advice - I'm sceptical of the ability of ski instructors to be god-like kit gurus.  Often instructors are some of the least interested people I've come across when it comes to an unbiased view range of skis on the market and their good and bad points as they are often just on the best pro-deal or sponsored kit.  Plus while lessons' primacy over skis is usually indisputable , bumps is one area where what you are skiing can really make an immediate difference and there is no doubt skiing the "wrong" ski can be very challenging in the way that doing the same on groomers, hardpack etc isn't.

post #21 of 22

I think you should buy your friend's RTM 75s, and let him treat himself to new skis.

post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post
 

 

While I think this is usually sound advice - I'm sceptical of the ability of ski instructors to be god-like kit gurus.  Often instructors are some of the least interested people I've come across when it comes to an unbiased view range of skis on the market and their good and bad points as they are often just on the best pro-deal or sponsored kit.  Plus while lessons' primacy over skis is usually indisputable , bumps is one area where what you are skiing can really make an immediate difference and there is no doubt skiing the "wrong" ski can be very challenging in the way that doing the same on groomers, hardpack etc isn't.

I agree with this. Even when they help out with some demo days it seems like they could care less. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

I think you should buy your friend's RTM 75s, and let him treat himself to new skis.

 honestly thats what made me create this thread. I was on evogear looking for replacement lenses and i saw RTMs 75s or 77s were really cheap and i was thinking hmmm maybe i should grab them. And then i was thinking theres probally a better set of skis I could purchases than what i have for moguls and glades. 

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