Originally Posted by cgeib
Agreed Rick, all of that is understood, as you know. Like you mention in your video the pivot varies from very small to very large. It could also be zero.
Yep, absolutely. It's all up to the skier, and the need.
Likewise, the pivot may take place for reasons other than this fore/aft change. For example, the small one at the end of your montage Razi picked has more to do with line in my estimation than fore/aft adjustment ( I gather you see it differently!);
No, I don't see it differently, Chris, i agree with you. The skier does not fret about being aft as they go through the transition because they know when they pivot they will be fore again. The pivot is done to meet the need the course or terrain demands, or they can be doing it just for the fun of it. The aft state during the transition is just an inconsequential byproduct of the execution of the pivoted entry into the turn. Only in error correction situations is a pivot used to manage fore/aft balance.
such that if he was not on a course needing to make that gate and then the next, etc he could have made a slightly different turn there without the pivot being necessar
Exactly. The luxury of freeskiing, pivoting is seldom a necessity, there are generally a plethora of other turning options at a skier's disposal, if they possess the skills to employ them and enjoy them.
In such a case (without the pivot needed) is he still aft then?
If he (Marcel) was not intending to pivot into the coming turn, he would likely not assume as aft a position through the transition, as he would want to quickly get forward for the initiation of the new turn, and the further back you allow yourself to get through the transition, the more you need to recover forward for new turn initiation which is coming fast. This is why in an arc to arc transition you almost always see extension of the old inside (uphill) leg starting well before edge angle neutral during the transition.
Where is the line drawn? If the skis own steering angle is enough to make the catch are we aft? What if we apply steering to tighten that built in steering angle a wee bit but don't dislodge the tails (blaspheme I know), aft?
Aft will always be aft, fore will be fore, regardless of how we engage the skis with the snow. In my DVDs I teach people to ski in all different states of fore/aft, while making all different kinds of turns. It's managed by how we flex/extend at the ankles, knees and waist. Center of mass crossing the skis during the transition doesn't necessarily ensure the CM will catch up with the skis at some point during the turn, the proper flexions/extensions have to also take place for that to happen.
I don't expect we'll agree ...haven't for a while on this. There are different perspectives about it and that's ok. Days are getting shorter and mornings cooler here. Work got me last season and I'm hoping to make up some days this year, if you escape FL we should explore it at ABasin:)
Chris, I don't see us disagreeing so much on all this as just looking at it from a different perspectives, putting more emphasis on different aspects while describing the same thing. During Bob's thread many moons ago I pointed out his aft position during the transition. People took it as a criticism, but I never meant it that way. It's just what happens when making some legitimate transitions. There are pros and cons to each transition type, but again, that speaks nothing about skills of the skier doing them, it simply points out the application virtues of each transition type.
Glad you're going to get more snow time this year, Chris, works had me for way too long. At some point I'll be back, still own a house in Colorado. When I return, definitely will hook up and we can play with this stuff on the slopes.