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What aero roadie do I *really* want?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

- Needs to be a good descender.     I'm really, really tired of arriving at the top of the hill in the front of the group and then catching so much air on the downhill that the bike will refuse to go over 40mph.

- Needs to be a good descender part 2.     I'm really, really tired of having to constantly guard against speed wobble.   My old Paramount was nicer in this regard than my 'modern' Specialized.   By a factor of 3 if not a factor of 10.

 

- Needs to *not* feel clunky.     OK, I rode a Ridley Noah this weekend.    From the moment I got on to the moment I got off it simply felt dead.    And heavy.   At least twice as heavy as my '86 Alan.   (And there was some odd sizing going on but neither the large nor the medium felt right)

 

- Needs to feel stiff to pedaling effort in a side-to-side way.    OK, I rode a Fuji gran Fondo this weekend.   It felt much lighter and alive than the Noah, sure.    But the moment I started putting in serious effort in the drops the Fuji started dropping off in a wants-to-lean-over way instead of wanting to go in a straight line.         This might be OK on a MTB with 30psi tires but it  was quite disconcerting in a road bike with 120psi. 

 

- Needs to not be a slug uphill.       There are plenty of touring bikes that fit two of the ^above criteria but I already *have* a Trek 520 and I don't need another.

post #2 of 18
Much like skis, a bike like the Noah comes alive with more effort on the pedals. I ride a Fenix and have no complaints. I dont know that it'd be all too hard to build up a Noah to the UCI minimum or a lb more. IMHO, wheelsets and tires/tire pressure play a very large role in bike 'feel'.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 IMHO, wheelsets and tires/tire pressure play a very large role in bike 'feel'.

 

To be sure.   Which, of course, still has me wondering what exactly I just demoed.

 

And, to bring things round full circle, it is the reason for this thread - otherwise I'd just be knocking at every next shop's door with shoes in hand.

post #4 of 18

Ummm..ahem..how big is the "sail"??  :D

post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 

Heh.    The Spesh will not go over 40mph.    Same spoke count, same Open Pros, same hill, same computer, the Paramount tops out above 50.     56cm and 58cm respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Much like skis, a bike like the Noah comes alive with more effort on the pedals.

 

No idea what 'more effort' would mean here, but if it's much over 400W then there's no point in me looking at it again.    I'd only be happy with the bike two minutes at a time.


Edited by cantunamunch - 9/8/15 at 11:59am
post #6 of 18

Well...drag is generally about frontal area, with some fairing-related benefits as well.  My first thought, are the wheels exactly the same including tires?  What's sticking into the air?  Bags?  Bottles?  Cables?  Newer frames have generally wider cross sections than old dogs so that may be a contributing factor, but I find it hard to believe that much of a factor.  Biggest aero benefit is wheels..and not having other crap in the airstream.  It doesn't solve your inter-bike discrepancy but it will make you generally faster.  You can go Cervelo Aero Road..which look ridiculous to me but no doubt it's faster aero-wise. 

 

I suppose there is also aero-positioning..is your position much different?  Think TT position..

post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
 

 

I suppose there is also aero-positioning..is your position much different?  Think TT position..

 

Upper body-wise, not that I can tell - the hip and waist angles and knee and neck angles are pretty similar.      It is completely possible that I am overall more rotated towards the front on the Schwinn - which would be why I hate climbing with it. 

On Cervelos - the S3 looks within the ballpark of what I could be convinced about. 

post #8 of 18
Well humpback like lance is probably slickest. Wider bars? I really think the actual frame is not the big difference here.
post #9 of 18

Not sure where to start.  I could ramble off the expected response for aero bikes.  The Spesh Venge, Trek Madone, Cervelo S5, Pina Dogma, BMC Time Machine, and yes, the Noah.  I'm curious about the Noah.  Did you ride the new SL version?

 

For me,  I am partial to a few bikes.  The Tarmac SL4, The Domane team edition, and the Dogma.  Any of these can get to the top pretty quick and get you down in excess of 50 mph.  Probably not exactly what you are looking for though.   There are many other great bikes that are non aero.  And yes I think the S3 is one of them.  Are you looking for a longer or more aggressive wheelbase?   

 

You are already on board with Markojp comment about the wheels and tires being part of the equation.  Not sure what to say about the 120 psi.  Too much for me ... if you are really running that much.  And speed wobble?  Not good and can be a result of multiple things.  You mention both not being able to get to 40 and speed wobble descending.  Just based on your comment and not knowing anything else geometry comes to mind.  How you are positioned and have your weight distributed *could* be a factor.  This is kind of a 1st thing that came to mind on my part.  I could be way off base.  Have you checked your wheels?  Spokes, tracking, etc.?   Know any coaches that can do a ride with you to see what they think?  Is this only happening with your Specialized?   

post #10 of 18

If it were me, it would be a Time or a Giant. Have you seen the new Cane Creek headset that has a built in steering damper and supposedly cures speed wobble?

post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike78 View Post
 

  And speed wobble?  Not good and can be a result of multiple things.  You mention both not being able to get to 40 and speed wobble descending.  Just based on your comment and not knowing anything else geometry comes to mind.  How you are positioned and have your weight distributed *could* be a factor.  This is kind of a 1st thing that came to mind on my part.  I could be way off base.  


I don't think you are.    It does only happen on the Spesh.  

The other thing I didn't mention is that it can be brutally willful in a crosswind which just by itself tells me that I'm weighting the back wheel too much.

Yes, I can find someone.   Of course, the last time I did that I wound up with...  

 

post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
 

If it were me, it would be a Time or a Giant. Have you seen the new Cane Creek headset that has a built in steering damper and supposedly cures speed wobble?

 

No.   Ooooooo. 

post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

No.   Ooooooo. 

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/cane-creek-claims-new-headset-cures-speed-wobble-45125/

post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 

Update:

No purchase as yet.  

New stem and new wheelset  (P-SLR1s)  on the old bike.

post #15 of 18


I'm sure this is heresy, but if you want an aero stable downhill road bike, how about a recumbent?  I ride a carbon fiber high racer.  It transforms a weak rider (me) into a force to be contended with on the flats, rollers, and downhill.  For example, until this spring, I held the descent record for South Saint Vrain Canyon.  Number 2?  Taylor Phinney.

 

If I would lose 15 pounds, I might climb well as well.  As it is, I'm usually in the first 10-15% of riders to complete even mountainous stages of rides like the Bicycle Tour of Colorado.  

 

One last benefit?  No saddle sores, sore nether parts, or sore back/neck.

 

My bike weighs 18.5 pounds.  Of course, I load it up with 5+ pounds of stuff, much of which I don't even know I have...

 

Mike

post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 

I very much confess I'd never even thought about it before.    Hunh.

post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
 


I'm sure this is heresy, but if you want an aero stable downhill road bike, how about a recumbent? (...)

Mike

It is heresy; indeed!

:rolleyes

post #18 of 18
My fastest descent was down the east side of Wolf Creek Pass. Ten minutes above 50 MPH..

I also rode the Buffalo Classic century in 4:50. No drafting.

Boulder county has a lot of top cyclists, including world Toru, continental tour, and professional triathletes. There are very few of them that can keep up on the flats. There's a reason the UCI banned recumbents in 1932. (Lack of) aerodynamic drag.

MIke
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