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The argument against demoing skis - Page 7

post #181 of 206

heard a rumor once that Jonny Moseley spray-painted his blue langes orange for Nagano. (was spancerd by Technica)

Funny if true.

post #182 of 206

I do feel that demoing is mandatory, but that only buying a ski that you've demoed isn't. Let me explain:

 

I skied on 180 cm Atomic Beta Race 920's for almost 15 years. I bought them without demoing based on every description I could find at the time. I guess I was lucky, but I always felt that they were possibly the best pair of skis I've ever owned. If they had been 170's I probably would have kept them another 5 years. As I only get to ski 8-10 days a year, they're actually still in good shape.

 

But I'm 15 years older now, and I decided it was time to update my equipment. I felt I wanted something a bit more forgiving and versatile 

but was still clearly focused on a front-side hard-snow carver. So in March of 2014, I went to a free demo day given by Bob Skinner's Ski 

Shop at Sunapee in New Hampshire.

 

Based on what was available and armed with a variety of prior research I demoed the following in order:
Nordica NRG 80 in 169;
Blizzard Brahma in 173;
Fischer Motive 86 in 175;
Nordica Steadfast in 170.

 

Of these, I clearly preferred the Motive 86's, which hadn't even been on my radar. So I went online to do some research on them, compared 

them to the Progressor 900's which had previously caught my attention, but which hadn't been available to demo. I've owned Fischers before and I like the 'Fischer feel'. Based on comparing the on-line descriptions and reviews of the two models and my experience on the Motives, I bought the P900's in 170 in the fall. Last season I got 10 days on them and was emminently pleased with my decision. But I don't think I would have been able to confidently extrapolate whether I would like them if I hadn't demoed the others.

 

Anyway, that's how I did it.

 

Caveat: I've always had just a one-ski quiver and always skied Eastern hardpack, but I think I might demo some skis more specifically suited to slithering through the bumps and trees this year to possibly add to the P900s: Fischer Motive 95, Fischer Ranger 90, Atomic Vantage 90, Dynastar Powertrack 89. Besides, demoing is fun (when it's free)!


Edited by Tominator - 8/8/15 at 4:04pm
post #183 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Tough love, but when it comes to skiing and gear, you ha e some very strong opinions that dont hold up to scrutiny... Custom foot beds... Yeah, most of us who work on our skis have them. High arch? Could have told you a head raptor won't fly without a lot of work, and pointless work at that unless you're getting gear for free of are a hill rep. High arch? Try a Nordica/Tecnica dobermann maybe. Folding a lange? You're not folding a 140 and i doubt ypur folding a 130 on the hill. Boots... If youre paying for them, get the best shell fit out of the box to start with. Its that simple and it does matter. anyhow, carry on.

 

Maybe I am not using the correct terminology.  Since I have a high arch what I feel with Lange boots is that they push or fold right into that part of the boot.  So when you flex its not if you can flex them its how they flex that feels like it folds right into the top of the foot.  I can flex a 130 fairly easy and again that is not what I was talking about.  Brands all flex differently and the feel of how they flex is just as important to me as the actual stiffness.

post #184 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominator View Post
 So I went online to do some research on them, compared 

them to the Progressor 900's which had previously caught my attention, but which hadn't been available to demo. I've owned Fischers before and I like the 'Fischer feel'. Based on comparing the on-line descriptions and reviews of the two models and my experience on the Motives, I bought the P900's in 170 in the fall. Last season I got 10 days on them and was emminently pleased with my decision. But I don't think I would have been able to confidently extrapolate whether I would like them if I hadn't demoed the others.

 

Anyway, that's how I did it.

 

Caveat: I've always had just a one-ski quiver and always skied Eastern hardpack, but I think I might demo some skis more specifically suited to slithering through the bumps and trees this year to possibly add to the P900s: Fischer Motive 95, Fischer Ranger 90, Atomic Vantage 90, Dynastar Powertrack 89. Besides, demoing is fun (when it's free)!

 

 

  Heard some great things about the progessor 900's but have never been able to demo a pair.  Sort of don't want to purchase without trying first but hear great things.

post #185 of 206
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post

Maybe I am not using the correct terminology.  Since I have a high arch what I feel with Lange boots is that they push or fold right into that part of the boot.  So when you flex its not if you can flex them its how they flex that feels like it folds right into the top of the foot.  I can flex a 130 fairly easy and again that is not what I was talking about.  Brands all flex differently and the feel of how they flex is just as important to me as the actual stiffness.

Then why bother with the Lange/Rossi when there are other boots that will better accommodate your arch are out there? Ever tried on a Doberman? I also don't understand your contention that there are no ski reviews relevant to you as a tall, athletic woman. A ski has no idea about the gender of the person. It's only physics. Find a tester or a friend who you seems to share stats and preferences with and go from there. Neither the tester or friend need to be female. Again, the skis don't care.
Edited by markojp - 8/8/15 at 11:32pm
post #186 of 206
Quote:
 In most cases, the first thing you are demoing is the snow

This has been true for me.  Some years ago, I demoed a pair of Völk AC40s on a day when it was snowing heavily. In 8-10" of soft, hero snow I was comfortably skiing bump runs which heretofore I had struggled on.  For days afterward, I couldn't get those AC40s out my mind because I had so much fun that day.  So I bought a pair.  But they really weren't the best ski for me and I eventually replaced them.

post #187 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post

 No one buys a car based on reviews and doesn't test drive it.

 

Well........

 

How many people really demo a car, properly. By demo, I don't mean drive it for fifteen minutes near the the dealership, but truly take it through it's paces? Drive it in the sun, the rain, the wind, the snow, in a thunderstorm, off road. at night, up a steep climb, on a ten hour road trip, loaded with gear, loaded with passengers, for a day, a week, a month? If you are not doing ALL of the above, you haven't truly demoed the car. The reality is that you do buy your car based on reviews and opinion, then you just sit for a few minutes to feel good about your decision.

post #188 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post

 No one buys a car based on reviews and doesn't test drive it.

 

Well........

 

How many people really demo a car, properly. By demo, I don't mean drive it for fifteen minutes near the the dealership, but truly take it through it's paces? Drive it in the sun, the rain, the wind, the snow, in a thunderstorm, off road. at night, up a steep climb, on a ten hour road trip, loaded with gear, loaded with passengers, for a day, a week, a month? If you are not doing ALL of the above, you haven't truly demoed the car. The reality is that you do buy your car based on reviews and opinion, then you just sit for a few minutes to feel good about your decision.

 

In the case of my current Outback - the WRX I was replacing had a little 2 liter that did very poorly on a particular road near Boulder - lots of switchbacks, and the car was always either revving too hard or lugging. I asked the dealership if I could take the Outback all the way to that road and test on it. They weren't thrilled, but they did let me do it to confirm that the extra half a liter and whatever other special sauce were in the engine made a difference.

post #189 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

Well........

 

How many people really demo a car, properly. By demo, I don't mean drive it for fifteen minutes near the the dealership, but truly take it through it's paces? Drive it in the sun, the rain, the wind, the snow, in a thunderstorm, off road. at night, up a steep climb, on a ten hour road trip, loaded with gear, loaded with passengers, for a day, a week, a month? If you are not doing ALL of the above, you haven't truly demoed the car. The reality is that you do buy your car based on reviews and opinion, then you just sit for a few minutes to feel good about your decision.

I don't totally disagree, but I think it's more than that. If the seat is not comfortable, if the sight lines are bad, if you don't like the turn signal, those kind of things are ascertained pretty quickly even driving a car around the block. We were buying a used car for my daughter last year, and she was sure she wanted a Jeep of some sort. We test drove a Liberty, and she hated it. HATED. So even though that was her "dream car," and the one her two BFs got subsequently, after sitting in it, she changed her mind. 

post #190 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
 

I don't totally disagree,

 

Of course you do, this is Epic Ski. You have taken every car you have ever bought for a month long test drive in all possible conditions. Totally.

post #191 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

Of course you do, this is Epic Ski. You have taken every car you have ever bought for a month long test drive in all possible conditions. Totally.

Well, actually, I explained my position, which was slightly different. But go ahead...

post #192 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

 

Actually I have a very high instep.  I cannot wear a Lange, or a Head race boot for that reason.  Most every review mentions these facts.  Also I have to have a custom insole as well for my high arch feet.

 

Actually, Tecnica and Lange are probably the best two options for those of us with high insteps... at least for all the boots I've tried on... unless they've dramatically changed the Langes over the past few years since I owned RX130's.

post #193 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Actually, Tecnica and Lange are probably the best two options for those of us with high insteps... at least for all the boots I've tried on... unless they've dramatically changed the Langes over the past few years since I owned RX130's.

I really like the Tecnica and your right those almost fit perfect without a boot fitter. They make a larger shell in a proper race boot flex and style. Lange might make a race boot with a larger shell but the race boot for me would need some work. Also I don't like how it flexes. It makes a lot of sense to try boots on and is free. Figure out what you like.
post #194 of 206

Twice in my life I have demoed cars and within the first minute I decided it was not for me. Once it was a Mercedes diesel and the other was a Chevy with a new raved about inline 6 cyl.  Both were underwhelming in performance.

I have also bought a number of cars and knew they were OK without driving. One was a Chevy Tahoe and it performed exactly as I thought it would and the other was a Z06 Corvette.

I will buy another Vette without ever driving it as I have driven them since the mid 60s and know what they will do.

I have purchased most of my skis without test driving and twice I wasted money. One was a Rossi Park ski that I purchased years ago thinking it would be good for powder. This is before the fat ski got popular. It really stunk and was worthless in powder. The second was a Rossi B2.

I skied several Rossi Bandits and B3 and thought the 2 would really rip. It felt like I had nothing under me and I only skied it a couple of times.

I feel like I can ski almost anything, but in these cases I was wrong.

I would suggest that a person at least take a run on a pair of skis to see if they hate them.

post #195 of 206
Demoing just gives a feel of what reviewers saying and giving you a reference point to compare it with. Like a ski and a reviewer with what appears to have similar characteristics as you says it's good but another ski is better you go for the better ski. Renting demo skis is different as it allows you select the best ski for the application for that day. Best solution when traveling.
post #196 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

Well........

 

How many people really demo a car, properly. By demo, I don't mean drive it for fifteen minutes near the the dealership, but truly take it through it's paces? Drive it in the sun, the rain, the wind, the snow, in a thunderstorm, off road. at night, up a steep climb, on a ten hour road trip, loaded with gear, loaded with passengers, for a day, a week, a month? If you are not doing ALL of the above, you haven't truly demoed the car. The reality is that you do buy your car based on reviews and opinion, then you just sit for a few minutes to feel good about your decision.

 

The other problem with this analogy is you don't have to pay for a car testdrive,  at least in the US.  


Imagine if there was even a nominal cost associated with a test drive, like $25 to do a test drive, and even if they credit it towards purchase.   I think a lot of folks would rarely go past the first car they already decided on based on specs and reviews.  They'd pick based on reviews, just take it out to confirm it's not bad, then buy.

post #197 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

 


Imagine if there was even a nominal cost associated with a test drive, like $25 to do a test drive, and even if they credit it towards purchase.   I think a lot of folks would rarely go past the first car they already decided on based on specs and reviews.  They'd pick based on reviews, just take it out to confirm it's not bad, then buy.

 

Back in the eighties I worked for AAFES on several US military bases in Germany. I sold Jeeps, Dodges, VWs and Harley Davisons to US servicemen station overseas. Some picked them up in Germany, some had them waiting for them back home. I sold a LOT of vehicles with no trade ins, no bartering, no haggling and no test drives. Every single vehicle was purchased based on specs, reviews and opinion only. The Harleys and VWs sold themselves, but Chrysler was not exactly know for it's quality back then.

 

People like to talk in exaggerated absolutes her at Epic. I'm just saying that not everyone needs, or wants, to test drive a car, or demo a ski, to make an informed intelligent purchase. As usual, there is no right or wrong here, just personal preference.

post #198 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

Imagine if there was even a nominal cost associated with a test drive, like $25 to do a test drive, and even if they credit it towards purchase.   I think a lot of folks would rarely go past the first car they already decided on based on specs and reviews.  They'd pick based on reviews, just take it out to confirm it's not bad, then buy.

Back in the eighties I worked for AAFES on several US military bases in Germany. I sold Jeeps, Dodges, VWs and Harley Davisons to US servicemen station overseas. Some picked them up in Germany, some had them waiting for them back home. I sold a LOT of vehicles with no trade ins, no bartering, no haggling and no test drives. Every single vehicle was purchased based on specs, reviews and opinion only. The Harleys and VWs sold themselves, but Chrysler was not exactly know for it's quality back then.

People like to talk in exaggerated absolutes her at Epic. I'm just saying that not everyone needs, or wants, to test drive a car, or demo a ski, to make an informed intelligent purchase. As usual, there is no right or wrong here, just personal preference.

This actually brings a very interesting point. Those that don't demo just want skis to ski, those that do are epic skiers or are working to be epic skiers wink.gif
post #199 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

. So even though that was her "dream car," and the one her two BFs got subsequently, after sitting in it, she changed her mind. 

 

Wait! Tell us about the polygamy situation!!

post #200 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

. So even though that was her "dream car," and the one her two BFs got subsequently, after sitting in it, she changed her mind. 

 

Wait! Tell us about the polygamy situation!!

 

Polygamy is by definition "multiple women."

post #201 of 206
Ok, polyandry then....
post #202 of 206

oops, yeah I meant BFFs not BFs... :D

post #203 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post
 

 

Polygamy is by definition "multiple women."


:ahijack: :D Geek out moment: Polygamy is multiple spouses, either sex. Polygyny means multiple female spouses, polyandry means multiple male spouses. 

 

Sorry, back to our regularly scheduled acronyms. 

post #204 of 206
So is demoing skis with mutilple spouses recommended?
post #205 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

So is demoing skis with mutilple spouses recommended?

 

Skis with multiple spouses? I didn't realize skis married.  :eek

 

Edited for clarification.

post #206 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

So is demoing skis with mutilple spouses recommended?


only if you dont get caught...... :D

 

or in the immortal toast...."here's to wives and loved ones.......and hope they never meet" :beercheer:

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