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Turning on steep ice technique mystery

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Mammoth in May -  I went up the lift with an older gentleman who offered a bit of advice for turning on the boilerplate ramp that was Cornice at the time. He enthused about lifting one arm or the other - I can’t remember whether it was uphill or downhill arm. I haven’t seen anyone do this before, but then during the day I watched a young racer who seemed to be practicing this. Can anyone tell me more about this?

post #2 of 17

Lifting one arm or the other is going to be difficult to discuss without more information.  

Usually messing with the feet and legs and hips is more fruitful.

But that's not to discount what one does with the arms as unimportant. 

 

Maybe some more information about how you do your turns will get the discussion started.

How do you currently start your turns on a boilerplate area such as the one you described?  

What do you do to get your turns going?

And what happens when you do that?

post #3 of 17

I've seen this tip and drill before.

forgive me on the technical terms.

 

The drill is to lift the uphill arm, or alternatively sometimes it's try to touch the downhill boot with the downhill hand.

 

The point of that particular drill is this helps with learning hip  angulation (counterweighting?) and keeping the the body mass more centered over the skis- or at the beginning stages just to feel the upper/lower body separation.

 

It a intermediate drill to break away from the beginner technique of just pure inclination and just leading with the upper body and having whole body as a straight line.  (I want to turn right so lean upper body right shoulder into the hill to try to get skis more on edge to turn right more.  

Seems especially useful skill to learn for ice so you can get the skis on edge without being overly inclinated (center of mass closer to your skis).

 

 

I'll leave it for the instructors to take from here.

post #4 of 17

By uphill, do you mean inside, and by downhill do you mean outside?

That would make sense.

post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

Lifting one arm or the other is going to be difficult to discuss without more information.  

Usually messing with the feet and legs and hips is more fruitful.

But that's not to discount what one does with the arms as unimportant. 

 

Maybe some more information about how you do your turns will get the discussion started.

How do you currently start your turns on a boilerplate area such as the one you described?  

What do you do to get your turns going?

And what happens when you do that?

Originally I was wondering what the gentleman meant, had not heard of it or seen it before, and was curious. About myself, I’m just a guy who takes lessons whenever I can. How do I get my own turns going: writing this is a difficult exercise in itself - this will be a poor attempt, and I’ll probably  get the order wrong. This is what I think about: Overall I try to let gravity and body position do the work. Balance is on the balls of my feet, ankles closed, flexed, upper body swivels to face and lean/fall down the fall line, depending on the terrain pole plant somewhere forward or behind my outside/downhill boot, foot pressure changes diagonally across the widths of my feet. Edges engage in a rheostatic manner slowly or quickly as fluidly as I can regardless of terrain. skis come around while I’m already setting up for the next turn, like a pendulum swing from a single point ideally. Usually I’m in bumps and trees and crud so there are all kinds of mediating natural phenomena to play with but would like to understand better how ice skiing works  - it’s so minimalist.

post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

I've seen this tip and drill before.

forgive me on the technical terms.

 

The drill is to lift the uphill arm, or alternatively sometimes it's try to touch the downhill boot with the downhill hand.

 

The point of that particular drill is this helps with learning hip  angulation (counterweighting?) and keeping the the body mass more centered over the skis- or at the beginning stages just to feel the upper/lower body separation.

 

It a intermediate drill to break away from the beginner technique of just pure inclination and just leading with the upper body and having whole body as a straight line.  (I want to turn right so lean upper body right shoulder into the hill to try to get skis more on edge to turn right more.  

Seems especially useful skill to learn for ice so you can get the skis on edge without being overly inclinated (center of mass closer to your skis).

 

 

I'll leave it for the instructors to take from here.


Thank you - that makes sense to me.

post #7 of 17

I think Ray got this right in his post above.  For more clarification, the OP could look up and try the Shlopy Drill or one of it's variations.  The point of raising the arms in this case is to increase angulation at the hips and get the skis to grip more effectively.  Edge angles are only part of the story when it comes to gription on hard snow. You could also reference the concept of platform angle as discussed by LeMaster and debated in lots of Epic Threads.

post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 

That's it, the Shlopy Drill. Looking forward to reading and watching vids on this and variations during the summer. Thank you.

post #9 of 17

Here ya go.  Railers and the Schlopy Drill.  

 

 

 

.

post #10 of 17

Thank you for the video

post #11 of 17

I wish I could ski that well.....:ROTF

post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
Edge angles are only part of the story when it comes to gription on hard snow.

That's a new one on me.  Is that a fancy way to say "grip?"

post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
Edge angles are only part of the story when it comes to gription on hard snow.

That's a new one on me.  Is that a fancy way to say "grip?"



All your nouns are belong to verbs.  You are on the way to new noun construction.

post #14 of 17

Grip is a noun, a verb, and (conceivably) an adjective.

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

Grip is a noun, a verb, and (conceivably) an adjective.

 

Adjective usage example... "grip tape" which is a rough tape wrap put around handle of sticks. Used in baseball, lacrosse, hockey, field hockey, etc. You grip the grip tape to get a good grip. 

post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post

 
Grip is a noun, a verb, and (conceivably) an adjective.

Adjective usage example... "grip tape" which is a rough tape wrap put around handle of sticks. Used in baseball, lacrosse, hockey, field hockey, etc. You grip the grip tape to get a good grip. 

Yes, although an argument could be made that it's a compound noun.
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post

 
Grip is a noun, a verb, and (conceivably) an adjective.

Adjective usage example... "grip tape" which is a rough tape wrap put around handle of sticks. Used in baseball, lacrosse, hockey, field hockey, etc. You grip the grip tape to get a good grip. 

Yes, although an argument could be made that it's a compound noun.

Clearly. No argument need be made.

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