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Curious about CSIA L4 exam ski choices...

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Gear head question, but are more candidates taking their L4 exam on SL skis than non race carvers? What's the magic radius range? 13-17, maybe 18 max? Thanks in advance!
post #2 of 35
Thread Starter 
Ok... Here's my guess. Because JF is skiing an SL ski, it's having an influence on things, no?
My thought would be a slightly shorter than race length cheater GS like a Blizzard WRC, Rossi Hero LT or Master, and a Head rebels iSpeed. Am I far off? Others that are in the mix? Maybe a list of one or two skis per brand. It's summer and just over thinking gear stuff here in the heat. smile.gif

@rollo87 ?
post #3 of 35

Don't know about csia l4 - for cscf 2 (DL)  you need both in gates, you'll get away with a 20m GS ski. For cscf 3 (PL) is minimum 23-27m I understand... depends on the hill I guess :)

 

Well, cscf is bye bye now, merged with the national racing org, ACA - it will be interesting to see the changes...

post #4 of 35

It depends, we see a fairly large difference in equipment choice from East to West, not just on the Level 4 exam, all the way through the levels. 

Snow conditions, and terrain dictate a lot of what candidates seem to ski. 


From what I know of the East, (as I don't actively conduct or teach out there)Eastern skiers  (Ontario, Quebec, Atlantic Canada) where the L4 exams are held in Quebec, on shorter runs with firmer more icy conditions. Most candidates seem ski on an aggressive side cut shorter more SL type skis, typically a Fischer RC4, Rossi ST, Head iSpeed. I think this is due to the high response on edge that is required on firm snow, the fact that the runs especially in Ontario seem to be fairly busy, and it's tough to turn a large radius ski on small runs with loads of people. As this is their everyday ski, it's likely to be the one they use for exams. 

 

In the West (BC/AB) we see a lot of variety, I see this more as I actively conduct here so my knowledge is a little better. In the Level 4 in particular, most seem to ski on a frontisde carver (70-80mm waist).Think Fischer Progressors, Blizzard G/R Power, Kastle RX12, or a Nordica Fire Arrow EDT 84/74. These seem to ski better in softer snow, larger bumps and have the required side cut to still perform well on firmer snow. Exams are held in both AB and BC, Whistler & Sunshine Village last season, that both get 8-12 meters of snow per season, with less crowded runs, longer and wider runs and a softer snow pack. Although this isn't an exclusivity, I've seen SL skis on exams before, as well as cheater GS skis, however they don't come as often, but things might have changed since I was on exams.

For the race portion, most candidates will bring a GS skis, the set is not full 27m GS, it's set at a 19-20m normally so a GS cheater <19 radius seems to be popular. 

Our Interski team will all be skiing on SL skis with 165 for men, 155/160 for ladies. Not necessarily a FIS legal ski, but something with a 11-13 radius. 

Hope this helps

post #5 of 35
Thread Starter 
It does. Thanks!
post #6 of 35

I personally think something in the 17-18m range is more versatile for the variety of skiing on the L4 exams especially for the non groomer maneuvers... although slalom skis do seem to be popular these days as it makes the deflection in the corridor easier to obtain as well as carved or nearly carved short turns. That said... regarless of what you ski on, the examiners will be able to tell if you are blending the skills apropriately for the given task and the radius of the ski. 

post #7 of 35
Thread Starter 
Just to be clear, I'm not in the CSIA system, but do watch pretty much everything CSIA puts out. I'm always interested in how gear affects and influences outcomes and dare I say 'aesthetic' preferences. I agree about 15-18m (in a couple of cases, even a bit more) sidecut and up to about an 85 waist being optimal for exam tasks and general 'get it done everywhere in anything' conditions. My interest is also in preparing for DCL tryouts next spring which in my mind is more like CSIA L4 in terms of what examiners need to see on the hill. That said, I'm not sure the trend toward 11-13m sidecut skis is a good one even at the highest levels a la JF. I'd love to have the chance to do an exchange or train for a few days with you guys. I'm a big fan of what you're doing on snow. What do you ski on skinerd? You're at Mt. Washington I'm assuming.
Edited by markojp - 7/10/15 at 12:11am
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Just to be clear, I'm not in the CSIA system, but do watch pretty much everything CSIA puts out. I'm always interested in how gear affects and influences outcomes and dare I say 'aesthetic' preferences. I agree about 15-18m (in a couple of cases, even a bit more) sidecut and up to about an 85 waist being optimal for exam tasks and general 'get it done everywhere in anything' conditions. My interest is also in preparing for DCL tryouts next spring which in my mind is more like CSIA L4 in terms of what examiners need to see on the hill. That said, I'm not sure the trend toward 11-13m sidecut skis is a good one even at the highest levels a la JF. I'd love to have the chance to do an exchange or train for a few days with you guys. I'm a big fan of what you're doing on snow. What do you ski on skinerd? You're at Mt. Washington I'm assuming.

The move towards the SL ski is kinda intresting. I spoke Tom Gellie from the APSI demo team a few winters ago about this choice. He said that they as a demo team in the APSI feel that the performance you can get from a SL ski is dynamic and powerful and suits the style of skiing they are looking for within high performance team skiing.

 He went further to explain, that in an ideal world, if he was demonstrating moguls he'd use a specific mogul ski, a short turn use a SL, a long turn a GS and a varied radius turn probably an SL. This way that the tool matches the desired outcome as much as possible. 

I think it really depends on what the DCL tasks are going to be, what conditions are experienced and what the outcome the examiners are looking for. If I was trying out for our High Performance team (those who are chosen are then eligible for Interski Selection) and the snow was bomb proof ice, with the expectation of fast short turns with a lot of edge performance (pretty much whats required in the East of Canada) then I'd be on a SL ski. As JF skis out of the east, it makes sense he'd ski the SL more often than not. If you look to the West, with SkiNerd (who made the HP team) where our tryouts where on softer more forgiving snow, my guess he skis a 72-85mm ski in a 178cm, as did most of us trying out. 
 

Come up to the HP camps in January at Silverstar/Mont Orford if you'd like to ski with the CSIA? 

 

post #9 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollo87 View Post
 

The move towards the SL ski is kinda intresting. I spoke Tom Gellie from the APSI demo team a few winters ago about this choice. He said that they as a demo team in the APSI feel that the performance you can get from a SL ski is dynamic and powerful and suits the style of skiing they are looking for within high performance team skiing.

 He went further to explain, that in an ideal world, if he was demonstrating moguls he'd use a specific mogul ski, a short turn use a SL, a long turn a GS and a varied radius turn probably an SL. This way that the tool matches the desired outcome as much as possible. 

I think it really depends on what the DCL tasks are going to be, what conditions are experienced and what the outcome the examiners are looking for. If I was trying out for our High Performance team (those who are chosen are then eligible for Interski Selection) and the snow was bomb proof ice, with the expectation of fast short turns with a lot of edge performance (pretty much whats required in the East of Canada) then I'd be on a SL ski. As JF skis out of the east, it makes sense he'd ski the SL more often than not. If you look to the West, with SkiNerd (who made the HP team) where our tryouts where on softer more forgiving snow, my guess he skis a 72-85mm ski in a 178cm, as did most of us trying out. 
 

Come up to the HP camps in January at Silverstar/Mont Orford if you'd like to ski with the CSIA? 

 


I'd love to, but January is 'very busy' time for work on the hill as it is for yourself. :)  It would have to be something in the spring... maybe at Whistler. Years ago when I was active in the T.A.J., I hopped on to a Cansi exam prep group for a day. Good fun and interesting to see what others are doing. I'll keep an eye on your western newsletter for dates next season. Thanks!! 

post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Just to be clear, I'm not in the CSIA system, but do watch pretty much everything CSIA puts out. I'm always interested in how gear affects and influences outcomes and dare I say 'aesthetic' preferences. I agree about 15-18m (in a couple of cases, even a bit more) sidecut and up to about an 85 waist being optimal for exam tasks and general 'get it done everywhere in anything' conditions. My interest is also in preparing for DCL tryouts next spring which in my mind is more like CSIA L4 in terms of what examiners need to see on the hill. That said, I'm not sure the trend toward 11-13m sidecut skis is a good one even at the highest levels a la JF. I'd love to have the chance to do an exchange or train for a few days with you guys. I'm a big fan of what you're doing on snow. What do you ski on skinerd? You're at Mt. Washington I'm assuming.

I agree with Rollo... in the West we tend to have softer and more plentiful snow making the focus a bit more on all mountain rather than groomer perfromance like in the east... and that definately dictates the ski choice. To be honest you can't even buy a slalom ski off the shelf here (on the Island anyways)... you need to special order it.

 

With regards to my skis: This last last season I switched from Rossi to Blizzard and went a little shorter (and narrower) than normal for my every day ski, G-Power in a 174cm (75mm waist, 17m radius)... but to be honest, I thought it was a little too short for the type of skiing I like to do so I will get the 180cm next year. On snowier days I have a Bonifide in a 187cm (98mm waist, 22m radius) which is supper fun. I haven't actually skied a slalom ski for probably 10 years at least... but perhaps I should;)!! And I suppose I probably would if I was on rock hard snow all the time.

 

...and yes I'm based at Mount Washington... although with last couple of terrible snow years we've had on the coast I've been jumping around quite a bit... Come on up and lets go a for a ski! Come to think of it... Where are you based? I love a good road trip!


Edited by skinerd - 7/12/15 at 12:16am
post #11 of 35
Thread Starter 
Crystal Mt.
post #12 of 35

hhhmm... Always wanted to check out Crystal. Did you have an okay season there last year?

post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post

hhhmm... Always wanted to check out Crystal. Did you have an okay season there last year?

Ha! No... But probably better than Mt. Washington. We essentially lost the bottom half of the mountain about mid February. That said, the limited terrain we had was great fun as always, and much less limited with some hiking or skinning. smile.gif
post #14 of 35

Yes... half a mountain to ski on is certainely better than no mountain to ski on;)

post #15 of 35
Thread Starter 
Shoot me a PM if you have a chance to get down this way. I'll do the same if I have a chance to get up to the island.

Maybe I should take it off line, but I wonder if the move to SL radius tech skiing takes away from building better connections with main stream skiing. Or perhaps it's the opposite, 'do it and they will come.'
post #16 of 35

Sounds good will do...

 

Intersting thought. I've actually been wondering the same thing lately. Although really impressive, and apreciated by us ski geeks... are carved short turns with lots of deflection something that the general public (our client base) strives for in their skiing? I'm not sure. I know many students love to lay their skis over in big turns cause it feels cool but when I'm teaching based on students actual goals, I generally use short turns more as a neccesary stepping stone for folks who want to ski off-piste.

 

I'm betting slalom skis will be used by the vast majority at Interski though, so I can only assume that all these instructor organizations around the world have done their market research... and I am wrong. In line with Rollo's comments about East vs West, my perspective may also be influenced greatly by where I ski and the market here.

post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I was thinking this when seeing the video of JF and J. Ballou in NZ... JF on SL's and J.B. on cheater GS's... Their ski choices certainly do effect their outcome. I don't know that the move to SL skis for interski is all in all a good thing if the vast majority of our clients aren't looking for the same outcomes. I'm not certain of the overall utility given the need for versatility in western US/Canada.

post #18 of 35

  On a slightly related note, I always notice that candidates often debate early in the season over exam day skis and end up decided well before the actual day(s) itself. I'm of the mindset that I may want to have a few different options on the table as the conditions du jour may not warrant an excessively stiff/turny SL ski, or a softer, "noodlier" all mountain, etc...so, don't leave home without (all of) them. 13-18m's sounds good though.

 

  zenny


Edited by zentune - 7/12/15 at 4:01pm
post #19 of 35
Thread Starter 
No doubt. I took a couple pairs for L3 just in case.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
 

  On a slightly related note, I always notice that candidates often debate early in the season over exam day skis and end up decided well before the actual day(s) itself. I'm of the mindset that I may want to have a few different options on the table as the conditions du jour may not warrant an excessively stiff/turny SL ski, or a softer, "noodlier" all mountain, etc...so, don't leave home without (all of) them. 13-18m's sounds good though.

 

  zenny

I'd probably bring the quiver too... but I'm just so horrible at making decisions;)

post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 

The current 'tech' quiver is a Titan and a Rev 85 pro. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post
 

I'd probably bring the quiver too... but I'm just so horrible at making decisions;)

 

Thankfully they make ski bags and cars to accomodate our indicision. Now if the airlines could just wrap their heads around our 'need'... hmmm, maybe they have. $$$$   :) 

post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 

The current 'tech' quiver is a Titan and a Rev 85 pro. 

 

How do you like the Rev compared to the older i.Peaks ?

post #23 of 35
Thread Starter 
Never skied the iPeaks. The Rev seems like one of the most under rated skis out there. I expected nothing. Matter of fact, I expected to sell mine.... until I actually skied them in the correct length and a Free Flex Pro binding. Super versatile for western skiing, and narrow enough for exams, demos, etc.... Of course if I were in Ont., I'd have either an iSL RD or a cheater GS iSpeed.... Probably the latter.
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Never skied the iPeaks. The Rev seems like one of the most under rated skis out there. I expected nothing. Matter of fact, I expected to sell mine.... until I actually skied them in the correct length and a Free Flex Pro binding. Super versatile for western skiing, and narrow enough for exams, demos, etc.... Of course if I were in Ont., I'd have either an iSL RD or a cheater GS iSpeed.... Probably the latter.


I didn't like the i.Speed that much - don't remember what it was now, there was something I didn't like about either getting on the edges or off them... I remember another coach said the same thing so it wasn't just me...

 

yeah, just got an 165 SL.RD last day last season - I had a 155 before that I really like, but gave in to demands to "man up". It's more... uhh... more...

 

really liked the i.Peaks last year - this year didn't like them that much except in what goes for powder around here... 

post #25 of 35

Well, along with Skinerd, one of my favorite free video advice offering Canadians is Josh Foster.  Josh appears to always be on the same ski whether he's in bumps, steeps, pow or groomers for his demos.  Last few seasons of videos looks like he is on the Head Supershape Rally..which, I think, in the right length would be ideal for any examiner exam East or West of the Rockies.

 

Crystal…I was thinking of going last season as I absolutely loved that hill the year before (we timed the snow really well), and with the new High Campell lift, I had big hopes, but the no-snow PNW changed that plan.  Still, I'd go back in a heartbeat, it was my kind of mountain.  Well priced, with terrain on par with Snowbird but the vibe of a much more low key, locals mountain.  

post #26 of 35
Thread Starter 

Send me a PM if you're in the hood. I'm usually pretty busy at the hill, but can probably swing a couple runs. The Rally... Very nice ski, just a wee soft and narrow for our hill at my size. The Titan works well though for a more carvy ski.

post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post
 

Well, along with Skinerd, one of my favorite free video advice offering Canadians is Josh Foster.  Josh appears to always be on the same ski whether he's in bumps, steeps, pow or groomers for his demos.  Last few seasons of videos looks like he is on the Head Supershape Rally..which, I think, in the right length would be ideal for any examiner exam East or West of the Rockies.

 

Crystal…I was thinking of going last season as I absolutely loved that hill the year before (we timed the snow really well), and with the new High Campell lift, I had big hopes, but the no-snow PNW changed that plan.  Still, I'd go back in a heartbeat, it was my kind of mountain.  Well priced, with terrain on par with Snowbird but the vibe of a much more low key, locals mountain.  

Having never skied Crystal Mountain, interesting comment, would love a bit of elaboration, its vertical, terrain variety - type, snow in a typical year (not a dry one like 2014-15, and why is it undiscovered so to speak other then amongst the few who have been there - location, access ? Curious.

post #28 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustyfog View Post
 

Having never skied Crystal Mountain, interesting comment, would love a bit of elaboration, its vertical, terrain variety - type, snow in a typical year (not a dry one like 2014-15, and why is it undiscovered so to speak other then amongst the few who have been there - location, access ? Curious.


Access, lack of on hill lodging options, and not much true beginner terrain. Lot's of off piste options... about 70% of the mountain probably. Vert... around 3100'. Terrain? Pretty rollicking... multiple mini bowls.. trees, chutes, steep groomers, great views, lot's of side and back country as well.   

 

Here's a link to a trail map:   http://crystalmountainresort.com/wp-content/themes/crystalmountain/pdfs/Map_CM_1-2015.pdf

 

 

and the hill:

 

 

 

 

post #29 of 35

I have a pair of orange pants, I could blend in.... ya think???

 

:rolleyes

post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

I have a pair of orange pants, I could blend in.... ya think???

 

:rolleyes


Orange pants...Drew Tabke... world free ride champion, good writer, by all acccounts, nice guy.

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