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The Dauphiné is over - Is it too early to talk Tour? - Page 3

post #61 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/21684/9914162/lance-armstrong-admits-blame-for-chris-froomes-doping-questions
(yeah, sure, it's Sky doing the reporting too, but I can believe that LA affects the news cycles (:)) for US readers

Heheh that's really some "interview"... or probably it's just Armstrong who knows how to deal with certain PR stuff, and tell things certain people would want to hear.  :) On the other hand, even if "he feels so bad that he's reason why innocent Froome needs to deal with this shi**t", he tweets "Clearly Froome/Porte/Sky are very strong. Too strong to be clean? Don't ask me, I have no clue." Of course he's smart enough not to accuse anyone directly, but you can get idea if you read between the lines ;)



Precisely my point.   LA knew exactly what he was doing, did it, and is now busy keeping himself within the public eye.    The people and media that think LA still has anything to say about the sport went bonkers with a story they knew how to exploit.      And so we have an 'imbalance', one that is created out of lazy reporting, confirmation bias, and astroturf. 

post #62 of 84

Thomas pulls back Contador?  So easily?  Sky's "program" appears to be pretty good!  :)

post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
 

Thomas pulls back Contador?  So easily?  Sky's "program" appears to be pretty good!  :)

OK so no-one can ever say anyone's guaranteed clean given the sport but G isn't a flash in the pan - usually he's been hampered by an inability to stay on his bike (he rode 2013 with a broken pelvis) and his track conditioning.  Check out his Commonwealth road race solo win to see how he can go.

post #64 of 84

Ok I've cooled off now LOL.

 

I will say though: the maillot jaune seems to always be questioned.  Froome wears it, so he's questioned.  Last year Nibali's performance begged the questions.  Before that, it was Wiggins.  So, is Froome the issue, or is the leader/winner that garners doubt???

 

So then, I wonder: will we simply question ANY leader?  More to the point: will we now always question any impressive performance as enhanced?

 

I honestly don't know.  Part of me says, "So what.  If they all cheat, is that not a level playing field?"  Sports are about being larger than life and better than us mere mortals.  People WANT sports heroes and stories.  Are people not getting what they wanted?

 

Of course, that's what a cynic might say LOL. 

post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post


We can't pick on no one, and we don't have the energy to pick on everyone.   Maybe we should dope, eh?

I would dope just for the fun flying up a mountain and I have never raced nor do I plan to. If it was free I'd do it starting tomorrow.
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post
 

Ok I've cooled off now LOL.

 

I will say though: the maillot jaune seems to always be questioned.  Froome wears it, so he's questioned.  Last year Nibali's performance begged the questions.  Before that, it was Wiggins.  So, is Froome the issue, or is the leader/winner that garners doubt???

 

So then, I wonder: will we simply question ANY leader?  More to the point: will we now always question any impressive performance as enhanced?

 

I honestly don't know.  Part of me says, "So what.  If they all cheat, is that not a level playing field?"  Sports are about being larger than life and better than us mere mortals.  People WANT sports heroes and stories.  Are people not getting what they wanted?

 

Of course, that's what a cynic might say LOL. 


Well, I guess the problem is that pretty much the last 30 winners of the Tour have subsequently been caught doping or confessed to doping.  The big outlier there is Indurain, and if you believe he didn't dope, I have some land to sell you cheap!  :D  Can we blame people for being jaded?  Pros continue to be caught..not great pros either..so if they're not great..what are the great ones doing?  Unfortunately, there is big money involved..

post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
Unfortunately, there is big money involved..

And even bigger money in doping industry. Some say doping industry is turning around quite big percentage of money that drugs "industry" is producing... illegal drugs that is, not medications. Cycling is just a small fish in a tank, so they don't really care about protecting it, or maybe they just sacrifice it, so they don't take sports where real money is turning around under the loupe. Tennis and especially football (soccer for you guys :)) is completely other thing, and it's being very well protected. Here in Europe, football players are dropping like flies. 20 years old kids dieing of heart attacks in middle of field almost on weekly basis. And these guys have endless medical checks behind them, they are relatively fit for athletes standards, and super fit for normal person, yet they are dropping like flies without any prior medical issues. And when you check number of doping tests in football, it's simply ridiculous. Then it really doesn't take too much to sum 1+1 and use some logic and you see where everything ends.

post #68 of 84

At least the controversy will shift after today to crazy riders. Glad to see Thomas is OK.

 

Sagan is incredible.

 

Fun tour to watch.

 

Eric

post #69 of 84

Sagan soooooooooooo deserves a stage win.  Considering he has no sprint train, no domestiques leading him, no protection, and is basically out there completely on his own, Sagan is killing it.  He's the total package.  Love watching him, he really looks like he's having fun too.  Quite a character.

 

 

Ok, switching gears (no pun intended) for my next post..........so I don't sound like a hypocrite, I will admit I love watching these guys.   Doped up or not.  I admit the potential irony of my next comments, but taken in context, they're simply musings........

post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
 


Well, I guess the problem is that pretty much the last 30 winners of the Tour have subsequently been caught doping or confessed to doping.  The big outlier there is Indurain, and if you believe he didn't dope, I have some land to sell you cheap!  :D  Can we blame people for being jaded?  Pros continue to be caught..not great pros either..so if they're not great..what are the great ones doing?  Unfortunately, there is big money involved..

 

Theoretically speaking..........if they've all been doping (of some sort), then why are we actually concerned and/or surprised about it?  If it's that prevalent and a given, then that is essentially the nature of the sport.  To NOT dope would be to be an outlier.  So why the kerfuffle?  If everyone's cheating, isn't it then fair, and let the best cheater win?

 

NOTE: I'm not condoning cheating, I'm just wondering why everyone gets their bibshorts in a knot when they find out a winner doped.  Do they not expect it?  And yet they are shocked --- SHOCKED --- when they hear some champion has doped? 

 

I'm just wondering: 1) why people continue to be shocked; 2) why some get a free pass (ie-Merckx).

 

Where there's money involved, there will be cheating.  I'm not naive, I get that.  In which case, then I'll accept that Froome is likely doping........BUT........so then most everyone else is doping as well.  In which case, then it's just part of cycling (and football, hockey, baseball, tennis, soccer, boxing, track and field, etc) and that's the end of that.  Right?

 

Just curious I suppose......

post #71 of 84


I am kind of surprised at what seems to be the growing number of anti-Sky.  I suppose it doesn't help if in fact the French commentators are stoking the fire as ALLEGED.  Not cool that Richie allegedly gets punched and Froome allegedly gets urine thrown in his face.   Then there is the *stuff* happening on social media.  Not sure how the authorities handle all of that.  I totally get why Michelle is hot and responding but maybe caution would be better there also.

 

Like I pointed out earlier in this discussion.  "One thing is guaranteed in the world of cycling.  cynicism.  If someone has a great performance, regardless if a pro, masters, or even a cat 3, the detractors weigh in."  Well unfortunately it is even more apparent now that  you are guilty if you have a great performance.  Period.  Pathetic that it has escalated to threats and ridiculous physical behavior.

post #72 of 84

The race for second and third seems like it's going to be good in the next few days. Some of the major players seem to be on good form finally.

post #73 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
 


Well, I guess the problem is that pretty much the last 30 winners of the Tour have subsequently been caught doping or confessed to doping.  The big outlier there is Indurain, and if you believe he didn't dope, I have some land to sell you cheap!  :D  Can we blame people for being jaded?  Pros continue to be caught..not great pros either..so if they're not great..what are the great ones doing?  Unfortunately, there is big money involved..

 

Theoretically speaking..........if they've all been doping (of some sort), then why are we actually concerned and/or surprised about it?  If it's that prevalent and a given, then that is essentially the nature of the sport.  To NOT dope would be to be an outlier.  So why the kerfuffle?  If everyone's cheating, isn't it then fair, and let the best cheater win?

 

NOTE: I'm not condoning cheating, I'm just wondering why everyone gets their bibshorts in a knot when they find out a winner doped.  Do they not expect it?  And yet they are shocked --- SHOCKED --- when they hear some champion has doped? 

 

I'm just wondering: 1) why people continue to be shocked; 2) why some get a free pass (ie-Merckx).

 

Where there's money involved, there will be cheating.  I'm not naive, I get that.  In which case, then I'll accept that Froome is likely doping........BUT........so then most everyone else is doping as well.  In which case, then it's just part of cycling (and football, hockey, baseball, tennis, soccer, boxing, track and field, etc) and that's the end of that.  Right?

 

Just curious I suppose......

 

I don't know if I've posted this article here before: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17460263.2011.555208#.Va2Fm7fkuHl   which may speak to your number 1,  but the simple answer to your #2 is - he did it before it was demonized.

post #74 of 84

Interesting that the talk is still about doping. Some crazy Frenchman crashes out two yellow jerseys and tries to kill Sky's second best rider and we aren't discussing what should be done to him? At least he should be drug tested?

Eric

post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post
 

Interesting that the talk is still about doping. Some crazy Frenchman crashes out two yellow jerseys and tries to kill Sky's second best rider and we aren't discussing what should be done to him? At least he should be drug tested?

Eric

:beercheer:

post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

Interesting that the talk is still about doping. Some crazy Frenchman crashes out two yellow jerseys and tries to kill Sky's second best rider and we aren't discussing what should be done to him? At least he should be drug tested?
Eric

No doubt. That was unreal. We could start a helmet thread biggrin.gif purely around the sequence of GT's head hitting a telephone pole at speed and then he gets up, loses only 40 sec or so, and is pissed at the time loss. Barguil should probably be DQ'd.
Edited by NayBreak - 7/21/15 at 9:29am
post #77 of 84

My favorite commentator, Bob Roll (who I guess is no longer saying Tour DAY France, more's the pity) was talking about how that guy would *certainly* learn better manners/control going forward because of this incident. But I believe there was mention of him having done something similar before. Shouldn't there be *some* kind of inquiry? Are there no fouls in TdF?

post #78 of 84


Yep there is.  I believe he should have been relegated and there is precedence for a rider not holding their line and causing mayhem.  The race commissars just have to deem his actions inappropriate.  Which they were AND this was his second debacle.   They can place the rider in some lower position, like last would have been appropriate.

post #79 of 84

I used to work with Bob Roll sometimes and he told me why he said Tour Day France...but I can't remember why. lol

 

He is a character though, good guy too.

post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by crank View Post
 

I used to work with Bob Roll sometimes and he told me why he said Tour Day France...but I can't remember why. lol

 

He is a character though, good guy too.

 

The series of ads a year or two ago where he was "trying" to pronounce it correctly - fabulous.

post #81 of 84

Thanks.  I was responsible for those.  Bob told me he got more comments and notoriety from those spots than anything he had done previously in his career.  The guy sitting across the desk from him was, in fact, the producer of OLN's TDF coverage.

post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by crank View Post

Thanks.  I was responsible for those.  Bob told me he got more comments and notoriety from those spots than anything he had done previously in his career.  The guy sitting across the desk from him was, in fact, the producer of OLN's TDF coverage.

Crank, he's also a skier! It'd be interesting to know a bit about his history in the sport. His boots? Nordica Patron Pro. Be fun if someone could interview him about sliding around on snow.
post #83 of 84

I know he lived in Durango...probably still does, along with Ned Overend and, I think, Greg Herbold.  There are some names from MTB history!  I have hear the skiing there is mainly intermediate...must be some great MTB trails though!

post #84 of 84
Ok, I now believe the top 3 position are set for this year's tour. I'll probably keep watching but I think the podium is complete
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