or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Skis choice help. Part 2.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Skis choice help. Part 2.

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I've asked this question a couple of month ago and got an answer: demo, demo, demo.

Well, I have demoed a few different models and still cannot make up my mind. Somebody, please, help me make a choice.

I'm 6' 235. I'm a lot more "muscle-through" than "touchy-feely" so it's hard for me to tell the difference between the skis, which is where my indecision comes from but here's what I thought:

1. Salomon 10 Pilot Hot. I thought it was very fast, quick and easy to turn but it didn't seem very stable.

2. Salomon Crossmax 10 and Atomic SX-9. Both felt more stable to less quick and slower that pilot. Does it make any sense to anybody else?

3. Head i.M75. The most stable ski in my opinion. But probably with the slowest turn. And since I'm trying to impove my bump performance, it's probably not for me.

4. Volkl 5 star. I generally like them - seems quite stable and easy to turn. Speed was ok. Unfortunately, I have only done one run in them. Ideally, I'd have to demo them more, but I went to two local stores and they're sold out and won't have them this season. So now I'm getting kind of scared and thinking maybe I should buy them while I have a chance.

I'm looking at 175. 168 seems too short. With Pilot I might consider going longer but that might make it harder for me in the bumps.

I don't think I'll make a big mistake with either of the above but I'd like to hear some more thoughts. Please.
post #2 of 23
I would go with the volkl's If you buy them and dont like them, They are a very sought after ski... so they would be easy to sell. Although they are really not a good bump ski. They are made to cruise the groomers. Have you tried the B1 or B2? Everyone that Have demoed them from our shop really liked them they seem to be right up your ally. Sorry if this confused you more but It really all does come down to demoing.

duke
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by duke:
I would go with the volkl's If you buy them and dont like them, They are a very sought after ski... so they would be easy to sell.
Thanks, I didn't think of it that way.

Quote:
Although they are really not a good bump ski. They are made to cruise the groomers. Have you tried the B1 or B2?
Interesting. Actually, 5 star was recommended by two different instructors from Killington who use them for bumps. I have tried B2 a while ago but frankly I wasn't ready for bumps back then so I cannot really make any judgements. Maybe I'll try them again.

[ December 22, 2003, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: XTSkier ]
post #4 of 23
XTskier,

Go get yourself a pair of AX3's flat with piston binding, at your size I would demo the 177cm. I don't think you will be disappointed. Read my reviews in the "review forum".

You may not beable to demo them without the motion system. I'm not a motion fan, but I would hope you could get a good feel for what the ski is like. I know Northern Ski Works, at Killington and in Ludlow carry them.

I don't know where your from, if you like PM me and may be I can give you more help.
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Max Capacity:
XTskier,

Go get yourself a pair of AX3's flat with piston binding, at your size I would demo the 177cm. I don't think you will be disappointed. Read my reviews in the "review forum".

You may not beable to demo them without the motion system. I'm not a motion fan, but I would hope you could get a good feel for what the ski is like. I know Northern Ski Works, at Killington and in Ludlow carry them.

I don't know where your from, if you like PM me and may be I can give you more help.
What's the difference between AX3 and 5 star?

I'm in NYC but I will be at Mt. Snow on Sun. If I don't decide on anything by then, I'll try to demo 5 star again, B2 and AX3.
post #6 of 23
XTSkier you describe yourself as a big muscle moose. I would go with Atomic every time. Atomic are tough as nails and retain their snap much longer with a moose drivin em. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #7 of 23
XTskier - you seem to be looking at vastly different types of skis. If you're looking for an all mountain ski, the B2 is a good choice - though I would echo Pierre in that if you are a "muscle" skier then the R11's might be a good choice. But, what you get in stiffness and off-piste cruising ability can be a liability in the bumps, especially at the lengths that you'd probably be looking at. Of course, you could get an all-mountain ski in a slightly shorter length (as long as they are stiff for your size) but then you'd give up off-piste performance!

I would suggest that you demo the following to see how they match up to how you ski:

Rossi B2
Atomic R11
Atomic C11 (slightly shorter than R11)
Atomic SL9 in 170 (these are softer, but with a very wide shovel as a rec slalom ski - quick turning with decent float in medium powder and also good in the bumps)

I strongly suggest that you rank the order of ski qualities that are most important to you and try and evaluate the demo skis in the same manner, and against your ranking of qualities. You also might want to try different lengths of the same ski.

Hopefully, this doesn't add to your confusion - good luck!
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
XTSkier you describe yourself as a big muscle moose. I would go with Atomic every time. Atomic are tough as nails and retain their snap much longer with a moose drivin em. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I wouldn't say I'm such a power house that destroys skis left and right. My point was - if I luck technique, I'll compensate by trying to muscle it so I need a ski that is forgiving to some extent.
post #9 of 23
The AX3 is a high end all mountain ski that does all things well. IMO the 5 star is a carving ski that is designed to be skied on groomed terrain. Look at the side cut of each ski. The AX3 has the same basic deminsions as a large group of "free ride skis" skis meant to ski the whole mountain. The 5 Star has the same basic deminsions as skier cross or carving skis, designed to be skied on groomed terrain. Granted any ski can ski the whole mountain, the difference comes from which ski will ski the whole mountain as if it was designed too.

Decide what your really buying the ski for. Do you ski every where, groomed, bumps, trees, powder, crud. Or do you just ski on the groomed trails.

The manufactures make different skis for a reason, Any good skier can ski any ski any where. It's just that some skis go any where easier.

I don't know any shops around the Mt Snow area. There is a shop called Competitive Edge just off Rt91 exit 17A or B (can't remember, I know how to get there but...). There on Rt 5 north about three miles form the exit. There site I think is www.compedgeskibike.com the shop may not look like much but they have a lot of stuff, and good people.

I see you want to improve your bump skiing, I have found that the G3/AX3 made bumps a lot easier to ski.

I have also demoed last years Crossmax 10 I found that I liked that ski when skied longer the 170cm I did not like the 180cm I liked as a all mountain ski. This years Crossmax is a different ski becareful there. the Pilot 10 I found I liked it in 170cm, the 180cm I found to be slow and heavy. I'm 5'11" 195lbs.

IMO you should try the AX3 in 177cm. I think you'll like it.

Sorry this got to be so long.
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Just to clarify a little.

I ski mostly NE, which means hard surface and ice. Mostly stay on the trail, don't go in between. I'm starting to do moguls. But the skis should also be able to handle some powder for those lucky days or occasional trips out west.

Originally I looked at Pilot 10 Scream and 5 star, both of which should work for my need. But then I went for industry demo days and decided to try few more model, hence such variety with models.
post #11 of 23
Okemo is haviing the Salomon Oasis project back again on Jan 23-25th free demos on the hill. Go to Salomon's site and look for other mountains the Oasis project will be at.

There are a lot of great skis out, Happy Hunting.
post #12 of 23
XT Skier you seem to be somewhat attached to the Pilot 10's. That is more of a finesse ski. At you're weight darn near everything is forgiving. If not just detune the tips and tails a bit until you grow into them. The pilot 10 Scream's are not particularly great in bumps.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
At you're weight darn near everything is forgiving. If not just detune the tips and tails a bit until you grow into them.
I don't know such fine details of skiing just yet. What do you mean by detuning tips and tails?
post #14 of 23
Detuning the tips and tails means dulling the sharp edges just a bit so they are not so grabby. Skis are also shipped from the factory flat with no base bevel. Going with a one degree base bevel will decrease grabbiness as well. Doing these things will tame the beasts but still retain the snap and torsional rigidity of a higher level ski. These things can be done by you or you're local shop.

Also going with a higher level ski allows a heavier person to go with shorter skis. Skis are manufactured with skiers of 140-180 lb in mind. Sorry if I offended you with the moose comment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ December 24, 2003, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #15 of 23
Here's a thought, instead of buying skis that you hope will make you an better skier, would a few lessons be better on the equipment you now have. After a couple of lessons and you have gotten better, you could then have a better idea of what ski you want and by that time may be able to get skis during the February sales.

Happy Holidays
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Max Capacity:
Here's a thought, instead of buying skis that you hope will make you an better skier, would a few lessons be better on the equipment you now have. After a couple of lessons and you have gotten better, you could then have a better idea of what ski you want and by that time may be able to get skis during the February sales.

Happy Holidays
I do take lessons but I feel my skis are limiting my progress. When I try demos, my technique in bumps improves a lot. I currently have Salomon Axendo 9. I think 200 or 210. Very stable in ice and pretty fast but they're too long for me in bumps and they totally sink in powder.

Plus it's a present from my wife. And I'm a x-mas baby so I don't want to wait till Feb.
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre:
Detuning the tips and tails means dulling the sharp edges just a bit so they are not so grabby. Skis are also shipped from the factory flat with no base bevel. Going with a one degree base bevel will decrease grabbiness as well. Doing these things will tame the beasts but still retain the snap and torsional rigidity of a higher level ski. These things can be done by you or you're local shop.
Thanks. Always nice to know.

Quote:
Also going with a higher level ski allows a heavier person to go with shorter skis. Skis are manufactured with skiers of 140-180 lb in mind. Sorry if I offended you with the moose comment. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Took it as a compliment. People used to mistake me for a bouncer in clubs sometimes...
post #18 of 23
X-Mas baby good for you, more gift's. Yes, if your on 200's you need new skis. Glad to hear you did this correctly.

I will say again may be you should look at the AX3 in 177cm with the piston binding. I don't think you will disapponted. I'm 5'11" 195lbs and love mine in 170cm.

Hope you get what you want from (Birthday) Santa.
post #19 of 23
XTskier, don't take this the wrong way, I'm tring to help; but reading your posts I'd say your looking at the wrong skis. The 5 Star is an expert skiers ski. Based on what your currently skiing on, some of your own words in our posts, you are aiming too high. Too many people buy too much ski before they are ready for it and suffer in their progression. When you say muscle the ski, what do you mean? To an expert skier, muscle the ski would mean really loading up the tip, bending the ski and shortening the turning radius. Do you mean this or do you mean cranking them around in a forced skidded turn fashion?
The fact that your not really into bumps, is another clue that you should take that you need an intermediate to expert all mountain ski, not a high end ski. I would look at the B1, not the B2 if I were you. The B2 is too wide for an all mountain ski for the east. The B1 has about a 70 mm waist, which will work well both east and west. I would look at the AX3 also. Don't get a pure carving, high end ski or a race ski.
post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SCRUFFY:
XTskier, don't take this the wrong way, I'm tring to help; but reading your posts I'd say your looking at the wrong skis. The 5 Star is an expert skiers ski. Based on what your currently skiing on, some of your own words in our posts, you are aiming too high. Too many people buy too much ski before they are ready for it and suffer in their progression. When you say muscle the ski, what do you mean? To an expert skier, muscle the ski would mean really loading up the tip, bending the ski and shortening the turning radius. Do you mean this or do you mean cranking them around in a forced skidded turn fashion?
The fact that your not really into bumps, is another clue that you should take that you need an intermediate to expert all mountain ski, not a high end ski. I would look at the B1, not the B2 if I were you. The B2 is too wide for an all mountain ski for the east. The B1 has about a 70 mm waist, which will work well both east and west. I would look at the AX3 also. Don't get a pure carving, high end ski or a race ski.
Ok. I don't have any problems whatsoever on the flat surfaces. I can go on absolutely any slope and have a decent technique. I don't look as good as some instructors or expert skiers but I can carve and basically do pretty good. I'm also ok with average height moguls. I might loose a turn here and there but mostly feel fine.

My problem is really high moguls. I cannot get the rythm thing going. Sometimes I can't make a turn short enough and I do kind of skating turn. I don't know if "force skidded turn" is the right term but I guess that's what I do.

I'd like to think I'm improving pretty fast. Last year I went from doing russian style ballet (with my feet over my head) in the deep moguls to doing 5 or 6 bumps at a time. Then I have to stop, map out the plan and repeat. This year I'm planning to concentrate on moguls so I'd like to think I'll improve a lot. At the same time I realize I will not ski as good as someone who started at the age of 5. So while a particular ski might be more than I need, it's ok with me as long as it's not going to stop my progress.
post #21 of 23
XT, your solution lies in the all-mountain midfats that have good performance on hard snow.

Atomic R:9 is my pick for you, with Volkl 724 AX3 in a somewhat distant 2d place. Footloose Sports has this to say about the Atomic R:9 --

Quote:
R:9 $695

A modern classic midfat all-mountain board formerly known as the 9.22. This is the Atomic all-mtn ski that seems to cover the broadest range of abilities and skiers. The R:9 is a nicely balanced ski, the right blend of stability and liveliness. The fusion of tracking and forgiveness let you have your way with it. One of the few skis that will work for an intermediate to a full-on expert. Like the R:EX, the R:9 is probably the lightest feeling of all the skis in this category; the lightweight feel and forgiving nature can definitely open doors to new terrain, and the extra width and light feel make it a real floater. A size run of 160-190cm should cover just about any skier. Compare to the Dynastar Intuitive 71 or the K2 Escape. 106-72-98 sidecut.
Remember that skis with metal sheets will be prone to bending in the bumps, especially if you have imperfect technique. This means if you intend to work on moguls and ski them often, consider something else.

[ December 24, 2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: gonzostrike ]
post #22 of 23
ok, clears it it some. I'd still look at the B1 or AX3.

from your questions:
1. Salomon 10 Pilot Hot. I thought it was very fast, quick and easy to turn but it didn't seem very stable.

2. Salomon Crossmax 10 and Atomic SX-9. Both felt more stable to less quick and slower that pilot. Does it make any sense to anybody else?

Well the crossmax should be turnier than the wider 10 Pilot Hot, but will be stiffer with the titanium, it's a carving machine. So this tells me you are not bending the crossmax and you are bending the softer Pilot. Yes, at high speeds the stiffer Crossmax will seem more stable, especially if you not on edge through the whole turn, the softer ski will tend to seem floppy. Keep em on edge though and they should be ok. Don't get a ski with metal in it for the bumps, you want a softer ski.

again the B1 is a good choice as it is damp enough to seem stable for you, yet you should be able to bend it. B1's work well in all conditions, including bumps. But demo first, YMMV.
Don't look for one ski to do everything well.

Again, don't take this as an insult, just as constructive help. You say your on Salomon Axendo 9 in the 200-210 range, your not even in the shaped ski revolution yet. I would dare say your probably not carving as much as you think you are. Most people, including me [img]smile.gif[/img] overestimate their abilitys. We can't see ourselves ski unless someone video tapes us. When you demo, your probably skiing the new shaped skis like your old stright ones, can be done, but your not getting the most out of the ski. Skidded turns are ok in the bumps by the way, they are necessary, only a ski god could carve bumps.

Get yourself on some indermiated to expert range all mountain skis, not too long, not too short, work with a good shop to get the right length for your size and weight. Take some lessons with a good instructor once you get the new skis. Everyone takes lessons, even top racers, so don't take it as an insult. I take lesons all the time, top skiers take lessons every year. Tell your instructor that your coming off stright long skis into shapes, that your a good skier, but want to learn waht's new in the field of technique for getting the most out of your new skis.
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SCRUFFY:
Well the crossmax should be turnier than the wider 10 Pilot Hot, but will be stiffer with the titanium, it's a carving machine. So this tells me you are not bending the crossmax and you are bending the softer Pilot. Yes, at high speeds the stiffer Crossmax will seem more stable, especially if you not on edge through the whole turn, the softer ski will tend to seem floppy. Keep em on edge though and they should be ok. Don't get a ski with metal in it for the bumps, you want a softer ski.
That's probably right on the money

Quote:
I would dare say your probably not carving as much as you think you are.
I'm no expert carver but in the class I do get two parallel "skate" lines drawn by ski edges. Which is not to say that I do it 100% of the time in my normal skiing but I don't do sliding and forced back turns on normal surfaces.

I'll try to demo AX3 and B1 over the weekend and hopefully make up my mind. But I'm approaching my demo threshhold. You know when you try to smell too many parfumes and then they all smell the same after a while? [img]smile.gif[/img]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Skis choice help. Part 2.