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Things you can do to reduce the likelihood of injury during a fall - Page 2

post #31 of 48

Here's how I see it IMHO

 

Beginners, fall hard because they are too busy skiing to notice that a fall is occurring, so when they realize it they tend to over react to the fall.  (Fear and slow to react)

 

Intermediates (aggressive ones), tend to think that they are a lot better than they really are (this is to do with the great equipment that is now available), so when they crash it tends to be hard. (Fear and too fast react)

 

Intermediates (moderate ones), tend not to crash as caution tends to lead the way, but when they do they tend to get caught off guard. (Fear and slow to react)

 

Advance/Expert/Pro

 

  1. Tend not to get caught off guard by an error so when a crash in the offing, tend to respond for the quickest recovery. (Not happy, reacting correctly)
  2. When caught of guard, also tend to respond for the quickest recovery. (Definitely not happy, but reacting correctly)
  3. When its a truly unexpected/or hard crash despite everything, they will fight it all the way while going down in flames.  (Oh Crap, hope this works and doesn't hurt too much!)

 

The best thing is knowing when to relax and when not too. Its not about knowing how to protect oneself, but more of understanding that it is about to happen and not being fearful of it so that you can relax through the fall and not accelerate the crash.

 

My feeling is that this something that could be taught at the beginning as the art of crashing, the more a skier understands it, the great the chance of reduced injury.

post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Here's how I see it IMHO

 

Beginners, fall hard because they are too busy skiing to notice that a fall is occurring, so when they realize it they tend to over react to the fall.  (Fear and slow to react)

 

Intermediates (aggressive ones), tend to think that they are a lot better than they really are (this is to do with the great equipment that is now available), so when they crash it tends to be hard. (Fear and too fast react)

 

Intermediates (moderate ones), tend not to crash as caution tends to lead the way, but when they do they tend to get caught off guard. (Fear and slow to react)

 

Advance/Expert/Pro

 

  1. Tend not to get caught off guard by an error so when a crash in the offing, tend to respond for the quickest recovery. (Not happy, reacting correctly)
  2. When caught of guard, also tend to respond for the quickest recovery. (Definitely not happy, but reacting correctly)
  3. When its a truly unexpected/or hard crash despite everything, they will fight it all the way while going down in flames.  (Oh Crap, hope this works and doesn't hurt too much!)

 

The best thing is knowing when to relax and when not too. Its not about knowing how to protect oneself, but more of understanding that it is about to happen and not being fearful of it so that you can relax through the fall and not accelerate the crash.

 

My feeling is that this something that could be taught at the beginning as the art of crashing, the more a skier understands it, the great the chance of reduced injury.


This right here!

 

" Its about knowing how to protect oneself, but just as important, if not more, is understanding that it is about to happen and not being fearful of it so that you can relax through the fall and not accelerate the crash."

 

FIFY

post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx2ski View Post
 

I don't agree with the "avoid falling at cost" method. If you get in the back seat and fight the fall, you put yourself in the perfect position for ACL injury. But you need to know yourself. If you've gotten in the back seat because you let a hand get back, you can punch both hands forward to get balanced and centered again. If you feel confident and strong and fast enough to do that (i.e. in the moguls), then it may work. If not, falling to the side (not sitting down) with legs flexed and together may be your better option.

 

I also disagree with "avoid falling at all costs." Sometimes, you're going to fall, and fighting it is going to cost you. But I'm always astounded at the young guys who sit on their skis cruising down a runout and then stand up whenever they actually want to ski - I used to be able to stand up like that, but now it hurts my knees just to watch!

post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 

I wonder if the 'avoid falling at cost' means do everything right to avoid a fall, rather than fight to avoid the fall once it starts? 

post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

I wonder if the 'avoid falling at cost' means do everything right to avoid a fall, rather than fight to avoid the fall once it starts? 

 

... and there is a cost to never falling. If you are never falling, you are not pushing the envelope in the manner it takes to truly get comfortable with speed. Eating it hard has been always been the reminding bitch slap of reality that, indeed, strict physics w/narrow margins are certainly at play. Speed is a good teacher while the lessons learned, are somewhat harsh.

 

I do feel that knowing how to fall instinctively, has been very helpful along the way. The first thing I do when I know I will not be making a recovery with a lost edge in a GS type turn is to relax the knees letting them collapse as well as relax the entire upper body and, usually, ride the slide out on my hip. That might be about half of my season's crashes. Very infrequently do I experience those awkward twisting falls rotating out of the toe piece before impact. My worst crashes are falling forward while skiing fast and, due to residual rotary momentum, rotating backwards before impact slamming the back of my helmet into NE boilerplate. No matter what skull bucket I am wearing, it always hurts like hell. While that fall has never ended a day, it has certainly resulted in a bad ski hangover the following morning.

 

When I look back at my life of skiing, surviving spectacular high speed crashes has been a considerable portion of the story as I am sure it is with many others here. Ultimately, we would never have to worry about injury from a fall but, unfortunately, that is not the way things are. If skiing fast is not your thing, that is OK, but would WC racing have the same allure without it? Watching Hirscher and Ligety exhibit such a high rate of control, yet, while being so close to the edge of disaster makes me want to feel and experience that same dynamic scaled down to within reasonable tolerances. When it comes to skiing, I am not yet ready to grow old gracefully.

post #36 of 48
I meant not avoiding falling, but once a fall starts, I try to get out of it, again, because a fall can be unpredictable, and it's best to be avoided.

of course, there are some falls that happen so fast, that you don't have time to do anything.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

I meant not avoiding falling, but once a fall starts, I try to get out of it, again, because a fall can be unpredictable, and it's best to be avoided.

of course, there are some falls that happen so fast, that you don't have time to do anything.

 

Yes, good recoveries, any recovery, usually has better chances than a fall.

 

Just know when the attempt has tipped passed the point of feasibility, relax and go with the flow. 

 

It may be always best to never try to get back up once the hips drop below the knees in a likely fall.

 

If we are going to develop quick snap instincts for recoveries, we have to fall many times to gain that experience.

post #38 of 48
Ski with impeccable balance and precise control. It's never boring and always pushing your envelope
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Ski with impeccable balance and precise control. It's never boring and always pushing your envelope

 

Oh, yes, perfection ... of course ... then there is that. Spirited you are.

 

I would think that the idea of perfection is the very demonstration of the end of envelope potential. How, otherwise, do you surpass impeccable balance and precise control? Where do you go from there?

post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Ski with impeccable balance and precise control. It's never boring and always pushing your envelope

 

Oh, yes, perfection ... of course ... then there is that. Spirited you are.

 

I would think that the idea of perfection is the very demonstration of the end of envelope potential. How, otherwise, do you surpass impeccable balance and precise control? Where do you go from there?


Impeccable balance and precise control at higher speeds.

Impeccable balance and precise control at higher speeds in more challenging terrain.

And then there is mogul tetris :D

post #41 of 48
Ghost is correct. How far you want to take it is a slippery slope. :-) I had 2 explosions/falls this year and both took their toll. Will I back off, probably not. I'm a 110% guy.
post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat View Post

One more thought.  I am a HUGE believer in preventative maint and medicine.  In addition to being confident in your fitness level and skiing within your realistic abilities, there are some basic things you can do to reduce risk.

1. Skis and Boots.  Make sure everything fits and make sure your skis are SHARP and appropriate to ability and conditions.  A pocket tuner is a good idea.  Borrowing some else's skis that "kinda fit ok" and are from 1980 "but in really good shape" is NOT. 

2.  Stay WARM AND ....


Everything Pat said... Basic fitness is huge in my opinion. It's critical IMHO for older folks and weekend warriors whose ski ability and knowledge can become significantly better than their basic physical fitness. Get out there and do stuff that makes you stronger, more fit, this summer to help avoid injury on the hill.
post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Ghost is correct. How far you want to take it is a slippery slope. :-) I had 2 explosions/falls this year and both took their toll. Will I back off, probably not. I'm a 110% guy.


My definition of the envelop is changes constantly as to where that 110% is.  I depends on a large number of things, but mostly on how I feel at that moment in terms of what can a I now!  Some days its a lot lower, some days its a lot higher.  Most days I'm pretty close to the mark.

 

 I just hope the a lot higher feeling doesn't come on a lot lower day :eek as those days just hurt.

post #44 of 48
Those are the times to dial it back down and do some drills. Or just take a break.
post #45 of 48

I had a really weird fall today, fortunately without injury, except of course to pride. JSA (Just skiing along) on the run above the mid-mountain lodge, headed back to the Lenawee lift. The snow was certainly slushy and slorpy, but not really grabby. Seemingly out of nowhere, one of my skis pops off. I kept sliding along easily for a few yards, not fully processing what happened. Then "something" happened with my remaining ski, and I went splat, forward onto my chest. I was mortified, and it didn't help that the fall hit the "play" button on my Shuffle. For a disoriented moment, I thought the lodge had seen my fall and switched what they were playing to specifically call me out.

 

I still don't know exactly what happened, but I'm pretty sure it's the snow's fault ;-)

 

I may want to get these bindings checked - a few people, upon watching the video of my lovely slide at Loveland, suggested that it actually started with a binding release.

post #46 of 48
Glad you were not injured in that unexpected release to fall.
post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Glad you were not injured in that unexpected release to fall.

 

Thanks! I mean, falls happen. Of all my falls, most are essentially a slow-motion tip, and the rest rarely hurt anything. I have really been pushing my comfort zone this season, and so I've had more "real" falls than usual. Plus a few where I start to tip into the hill, but the hill is steep enough that I just punch into the snow and I push myself back up.

 

I figure I'm just soooo good at falling (from all my practice) that while I don't remember what I did, I surely must have done the right thing today ;-)

 

(That's actually possible - while most of my martial arts practice back in the day was with striking arts, I did do some grappling and falling drills, too. I was never any good at rolls, though. We were taught, when falling forward, to land on forearms, not hands, as wrists are way too delicate. And while my wrists truly are crap, I can never remember hurting my wrist in a fall/crash.)

post #48 of 48
Sometimes those over the handlebars falls happen so quickly your face and chest take the full force of the impact. Punching off the snow isn't a real fall, it's a skip.
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