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Inside tipping and outside engagement. - Page 63  

post #1861 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

 

You mean this kind of drill right?

 

 

 

 

This drill is TOO SMALL!!!!

 

Now, this is something we could spend 63 pages discussing:

 

 

post #1862 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Can we stop with the verbiage like evil? It only perpetuates the bad blood but adds nothing constructive to the argument on either side.

Agreed, evil isn't a nice word. But the name they want to say is prohibited on EpicSki. And if they chose a positive word as a proxy for @@@@ then that word would be banned too.
post #1863 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
 


Yeppers.

 

Now, tell me, do you think you did wrong by asking the question that you asked? 

 

Was I a fool to have treated that as a sincere question and given a response?

 

When you asked for "how" along with what, was I again a fool to have thought that it was ok to again respond with tangible drills? 

I missed this post.   Just caught it rereading.  My questions are and will always be sincere on this forum.  I was looking for opinions.   YM

post #1864 of 1884
It's the agenda not the words that drove Epicski to act. The agenda to continue those debate minus a few words will only lead to forcing Epicski to act again.
post #1865 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

It's the agenda not the words that drove Epicski to act. The agenda to continue those debate minus a few words will only lead to forcing Epicski to act again.

 

Self- censored opinion :)

post #1866 of 1884

oh now here come the conspiracy theories.  agenda?  please...

post #1867 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

Would love to. The main people using that verbiage are using it sarcastically because we are specifically banned from using the correct label. Do you approve the correct label? The word being used to denigrate that system the most is "dogma".

Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

Untrue.

We have made it clear numerous times that we don't represent the evil system but only that it has been an influence among a variety of influences. You are the one that keeps bringing it up as a red herring.

Dr evil didn't invent that move. What he did was analyze it perhaps more deeply then anyone else out there and then attempt to monetize it.
What do you think specifically has been mis characterized? Make your case. Right now you're making a baseless accusation. You might have a valid point but you haven't proven it or even made any attempt to do so. Some of us feel it is actually YOU that is guilty of this and we have gone into detail about why.
So who wrote these posts?
Sound like an agenda to me. I doubt #### investigated the move more deeply than others BTW. He is just one of many to talk about it.Vetromile being one who comes to mind. In any case the tone and intent here was to put these sort of things to rest.Not perpetuate Rick and ####'s feud.

mod note: prohibited references replaced with ####
post #1868 of 1884

well I am certainly not trying to perpetuate any feuds between Rick, you-know-who or anyone else, I am talking about inside ski tipping and some people here keep mentioning that system so I am responding to things in order keep the facts straight, nothing else.  I guess you can read whatever you want into that, but I find no malice whatsoever in mentioning the system, which I actually generally try as hard as I possibly can to avoid doing.  Its only when you and others drag me into it that I am forced to respond JASP.  I believe you or Kook were actually the first person to try to bring "the system" into this discussion by labeling it as dogma.   I actually try very very hard to discuss these movements in a generic way because they are useful things to discuss.  Its totally silly that we should avoid those discussions on this site just because a few of you are afraid of the big bad wolf.

 

And by the way, I'm not disagreeing with you that others have identified this important movement, way before you-know-who did.  I haven't read Vetromile, but thanks for the reference I will check it out.  But I know Witherall was onto this already.  Nonetheless, you will not find any other materials anywhere that covers this particular movement pattern to the degree that "the system" has.  Or maybe you will!  I don't know.  If you find some good material about it, please share as I would love to hear about it.  Does that mean you agree its an important ski movement to discuss?

 

But you are way off base accusing me of having the kind of agenda you are now claiming.

post #1869 of 1884
Just to let you alp know, I got heartily repremanded by the #### himself on a friend's Facebook thread. smile.gif
post #1870 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

There is is nothing wrong with calling someone wrong. Especially when they are. As you are now.

I did not say anything was wrong with saying "you're wrong". It was the part about asking to prove a negative I was pointing out as badgering the witness. That said, we have reached the point in the thread where telling people they are wrong or making the same point over and over again is doing no one any good. If you just focus on your point, those of us following at home get it that the "other person"/"other side" is wrong. 

 

I certainly may be wrong about all this. I'm only trying to keep the civility level above the bare minimum. I'm running out of non-draconian tactics. One thing I was definitely wrong about was not to mention that my quote of your post was only one example out of many from other posters.

 

I'll leave you all with an interesting concept to consider. Who ever gets the last word in this thread could be:

a) the one who is "right" and wins the argument,

b) the person who is wrong and caused the thread to be locked,

c) someone who just got randomly lucky before I pulled the plug.

In other words the last word has no special meaning so there's no need to try to get it.

post #1871 of 1884

well the so called "witness" you are referring to might also be called the badgering person Rusty...if someone is going to get in your face over and over making baseless accusations and claims about skiing, without explanation, without proof, and repeat over and over that we are wrong.....I think we have a right to ask them to prove it.  that was not badgering you are quite wrong to call it such.  What is badgering is what Kook has been doing for several months now.   Yet you chose me to call out on the mat about it.  Tsk tsk.

post #1872 of 1884

And by the way, as far as I'm concerned, why should this thread ever be closed or locked?  There is no last word, and never will be.  This issue will always just come back on one thread or another.  It still needs to be discussed and still will be discussed and there is no way around it.  

post #1873 of 1884
There sure is a way, not that you would like it though. No one is forcing you to argue here. Does it even occur to you that TR is quite capable of shutting down this and any fuuture threads over this sort of bickering? Why start telling him he too is wrong and it's all kook's fault. When my kids did that I punished both. Is that what you want?
post #1874 of 1884

because he is wrong.  and so are you.

post #1875 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
 

because he is wrong.  and so are you.


OK....  thread over.  Everyone go have a beer.  :beercheer:

post #1876 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 


OK....  thread over.  Everyone go have a beer.  :beercheer:

No, the thread's not good until a few more cool kids talk about beating up a few more of the best coaches the US has ever enjoyed.  That captures the essence of what this thread has been.

 

For anyone new to the party, Razie expressed a desire to kick the backside of Vonn's junior coach[es] due to the poor job they so obviously did.  It speaks for itself.  And BTS, Zentune etc. didn't say one word when Razie said that.

post #1877 of 1884
Nonetheless ct, I'm still personally *not* sure what your, ummm, position is, other than "it" is a minor drill. How bout stepping up and saying clearly what is on your mind insteadt of dredging up the past misstatements of others th_dunno-1[1].gif:

zenny
post #1878 of 1884
Everyone else please, allow CTKook the platform!

zenny
post #1879 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Nonetheless ct, I'm still personally sure what your, ummm, position is, other than "it" is a minor drill. How bout stepping up and saying clearly what is on your mind insteadt of dredging up the past misstatements of others th_dunno-1[1].gif:

zenny


 I've been quite clear, probably 20 times now, that the drill in question is a minor but useful drill.  I'm not trying to be redundant now, I am simply responding because you seem to have missed my earlier posts, though you've still had time to flame me in numerous posts.

 

What the drill in question is not, is a fundamental skill.  Moreover, the prosylites of the drill aren't even articulating usage in a way consistent with where they got their "church schooling."  Because of that, combined with the disconnect between their advocacy and what is actually done in real skiing in a number of contexts, and even what is possible or safe in real skiing in a number of contexts such as steeps without deep stable snow, the drill is best regarded in the way it's viewed by real-world coaches and racers, as one of many drills and particularly good for helping beginners along to intermediate status.  I like a number of garland variations, myself.

post #1880 of 1884
Ok. So what then, is your prescribed method or methods for engagement/edging?

Edit: I have friends over and my wife is giving me the stink eye. Apologies for the brevity.

zenny
post #1881 of 1884

By the way, I just threw down the $20 for that Lorenz/Reilly/JF video.  I wish it didn't cost $20 so that we can post it here and show the segment where Paul basically describes inside tipping, inside foot pullback, bringing the inside foot in closer to the outside ski and counter balancing...not in so many words...but everything we've been talking about in this thread.... 

 

And it wasn't a drill.

 

carry on Kook...I am also sincerely interested to hear your prescribed methods and movements.

post #1882 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post


 I've been quite clear, probably 20 times now, that the drill in question is a minor but useful drill.  I'm not trying to be redundant now, I am simply responding because you seem to have missed my earlier posts, though you've still had time to flame me in numerous posts.

What the drill in question is not, is a fundamental skill.  Moreover, the prosylites of the drill aren't even articulating usage in a way consistent with where they got their "church schooling."  Because of that, combined with the disconnect between their advocacy and what is actually done in real skiing in a number of contexts, and even what is possible or safe in real skiing in a number of contexts such as steeps without deep stable snow, the drill is best regarded in the way it's viewed by real-world coaches and racers, as one of many drills and particularly good for helping beginners along to intermediate status.  I like a number of garland variations, myself.

Could tell.us what a couple of your garland variations are? I'm not being rhetorical... genuinely interested.
post #1883 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

No, the thread's not good until a few more cool kids talk about beating up a few more of the best coaches the US has ever enjoyed.  That captures the essence of what this thread has been.

For anyone new to the party, Razie expressed a desire to kick the backside of Vonn's junior coach[es] due to the poor job they so obviously did.  It speaks for itself.  And BTS, Zentune etc. didn't say one word when Razie said that.

Kook, there's ONE person by his own admitted ignorance dumped on Herr. Sailer. He was called on it and apologized. There isn't a 'cool kids' conspiracy. Knock it off. You're tweeking noses and its really really old.

On second thought, I'm out of this turd of a thread. You win Kook.
post #1884 of 1884

So much for a return to civility. The thread is locked again.

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