Originally Posted by Ghost
OK, I have to admit there is an elephant in the room.
It now seems to me that we have different participation in this thread:
Some participants in the discussion are presenting logical and rational arguments based on their unbiased experimentation with the subject of this thread;
Some participants are presenting irrational, irrelevant, and illogical arguments, not because they are snowboarders posing as skiers and have no understanding of the movements of skiing, but because they are very experienced and credentialed old-guard ski instructors who associate the movement with a ski school that (although they did not invent the technique) did a good marketing job with the technique and that shall not be named, and Mortimer pissed on their cornflakes;
We have their friends supporting them; and,
We have some posters presenting highly advanced techniques that should only be attempted after they can arc a decent series of retraction turns.
That's an interesting attempt to cast this in terms of spite, jealousy, and lack of insight or lack of logic on the one hand -- with a slight dollop of passive aggressive "piste-ism" thrown out in one clause -- and on the other hand, sober, insightful, educated posters gamely trying to shed the scientific light based on the results of their empirical experimentation.
However, the real elephant in the room is the relative isolation in real-world terms of the proponents of widespread use of this drill.
We already know that, for instance, two of the proponents of using this drill have already shown they aren't familiar with what works, movement-wise, in steeps. There would be both ethical and commercial problems with trying to put this to a strictly scientific test, but let's just leave this one as: highly improbably claims made about getting "upside down" everywhere, that in the real world obviously can't be backed up. To be fair to the author of the belief system in question, I don't think even that author would endorse the claims made in this regard in this thread.
Let's take racing: again, the movement is seldom used, seldom to never drilled, and socially Loki1 and A-man among others gave data points that it's never talked about by coaches. Nor is there a ban on the movement or other constraint that would prevent its being employed. So, there and for bumps and trees, again, empirically we already have results.
Socially and culturally, I feel bad dragging something JASP took for granted into this, but, did anyone else notice that JASP knows Austrians? It's unremarkable in most ways, as someone in JASP's location and role in life will do so. Those Austrian's aren't, in a moment of quiet confidence to a friend, uttering "Mein Gott! Why did he [not JASP] have to let the cat out of the bag as to our secret!" And of course the Austrians themselves don't use this drill in their alpine racing in the normal course, either.
Socially and culturally, one could say this is more a Canadian fringe movement than an Austrian one, anyway, but as noted neither do the Canadians push this drill. And, the incessant attacks on the Canadian demo team among others by proponents of the drill do not speak well.
What is a shame is that the complementary use of the inside ski in a way that bolsters real-world performance gets lost in all of this. I put up a video with nary a turn initiated with the movement sequence in question, but where virtually every turn would not have worked without some inside ski usage, even in the case of some skiers such as Vonn who are more skewed to the outside for the whole turn. (I note that the proponents of the drill in question also make great sport of poking at Vonn's technique and boot setup, again raising the question as to whether they have great insight and Vonn and her coaches are stupid, or whether perhaps someone who's spent their whole life focused on excellence, with great results, who has been the best in the world, might not be such an idiot.)
Don't get me wrong, in terms of elephants in the room a lot of this thread has been funny. For instance, when BTS tried to squirrel the discussion to claims that this was all along just a little talk about edging and not, after all, about leading with active tipping of the inside ski, it dovetailed nicely, if incongruently, which his claims to get "upside down" everywhere at PCMR. But, I would suggest a better social model in terms of dialogue would be for proponents of the drill to state, accurately, that it's a bit of a fringe thing that they're happy with. By now, in golf most Moe Norman proponents aren't trying to say that everyone is doing it or that the swing in question is the key to tournament success.