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Short Skis for Tight Trees? - Page 2

post #31 of 47

try traversing the trees when they get overwhelming.  changing the line, taking a break allows you to regather yourself mentally which is a lot of issue with trees in the beginning.  Nothing wrong with that.  

post #32 of 47

^^^^ Or just stop. Take a few breaths. Listen. Look at the snow crystals. See if there any fresh animal tracks or weirdly shaped branches around. Scope out a new line. Take off again. Of all the places we ski, trees are the most meditative, the least conducive to charging. So why not get into their environment, instead of making everything into a test of our ability? 

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

^^^^ Or just stop. Take a few breaths. Listen. Look at the snow crystals. See if there any fresh animal tracks or weirdly shaped branches around. Scope out a new line. Take off again. Of all the places we ski, trees are the most meditative, the least conducive to charging. So why not get into their environment, instead of making everything into a test of our ability? 


Well said.

post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by douismaximus View Post
 

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here but my thought for going super short is the same logic as using snowblades. I've actually seen someone go down the backcountry trails in Jay using snowblades and he was shredding down the tight trees like they were groomers. Of course snowblades are terrible everywhere else unless you really like riding them but I thought the geometry of short twin tip skis versus snowblades are pretty much the same no


No. And it's all over at 34? Yiiikes. You've got many years of crappy middling intermediate skiing to look forward to. Coaching... get. some. coaching.  

post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by douismaximus View Post
 

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here but my thought for going super short is the same logic as using snowblades. I've actually seen someone go down the backcountry trails in Jay using snowblades and he was shredding down the tight trees like they were groomers. Of course snowblades are terrible everywhere else unless you really like riding them but I thought the geometry of short twin tip skis versus snowblades are pretty much the same no


And it's all over at 34? Yiiikes. 

 

We've been all over the poor boy for this, already.  Coaching is a great suggestion, though.

post #36 of 47

Like some said earlier in the thread: rocker...full rocker like Nordica Patron, Atomic Automatic, Rossignol soul 7, K2 Shredator Head collective and Salomon Q-105...

 

I own a Patron in 184 ( for 6'; 215 pounds) and have skied the Soul 7 ( in 180 cm)  and the Automatic 109 and they all can turn on a dime... Of the 3, the automatic are the most turny but lacking some tail imo; then, there is the soul 7 and the Patron... The soul 7 is more turny than the Patron but the Patron is better in crud and messed up snow...

 

The full rocker makes a 184 ski turn almost like a 165 cm ski; support you like a 170 on groomed and a 184 in soft snow...

post #37 of 47

Good call on the Automatic^^^

 

I demoed the 117 this season out at Solitude and thought it would make an excellent east coast tree ski. Even in a 186 it felt quicker and more maneuverable than my 184 SFBs. 

 

For OP

179 in the 117

175 in the 109

180 in the 102

 

That ski definitely felt like it skied a lot shorter than it was. They also measured about 2cm short, which is consistent with the Blister Gear review for the 186 and 193.

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogsie View Post
 

Like some said earlier in the thread: rocker...full rocker like Nordica Patron, Atomic Automatic, Rossignol soul 7, K2 Shredator Head collective and Salomon Q-105...

 

 

Is the Patron full rocker?  I didn't think it was.

post #39 of 47
It's not... camber underfoot as are the Head Flight series mentioned in the post you bring up.
post #40 of 47

I still consider them full rocker ski... Lets say they are full rocker  ski with camber  underfoot compared to full rocker like the Bridge...

post #41 of 47
This may help with getting more confortable skiing in the trees. Find a shot through the trees that is within the resort boundaries, something you can do laps on. Do the same line over and over. You'll get more comfortable because the terrain (and the trees), will become more familiar. You'll start anticipating where the next turns will be. And quite possibly, because you have a better idea of where you're going, where the next turn is, you may start focusing just on how you're turning. You may even find yourself getting a little relaxed and enjoy the fact that you're skiing in the trees. After a while, take another line through the trees and do the same thing.

I don't know if this helps others but it has helped me out when attempting to ski terrain that seems harder and moredifficult.
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

^^^^ Or just stop. Take a few breaths. Listen. Look at the snow crystals. See if there any fresh animal tracks or weirdly shaped branches around. Scope out a new line. Take off again. Of all the places we ski, trees are the most meditative, the least conducive to charging. So why not get into their environment, instead of making everything into a test of our ability? 

 

This. I love tree skiing, and I do this a lot. I'm not the best tree skier - okay, I'm pretty mediocre - but there's no such thing as a tree skiing race. I find powder in all sorts of strange places because I stop to look around.

 

The only problem with being slow in trees is that if you do get hurt and no one's nearby, you're in deep doodoo.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallee View Post
 

Douis,

 

Here is another thought. I noticed as I started venturing into the tree's more often that if I was a bit nervous and intimidated, I started leaning back a bit and getting into the back seat. If I was on a stiffer ski or a ski that didn't release the tails easily, it resulted in my ski's "jetting" out from under me, increased speed, less control and bailing out. 

 

Keeping myself centered and with ski's that I could better manage the tail release, my confidence improved and I really started enjoying cruising through trees. So length of the skis wasn't the key for me.

 

I also find myself leaning back and pushing tails in trees. I can counteract it, but only if I slow myself down and think about it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by douismaximus View Post
 

I do think that improving my state of mind and getting over the general fear in these backcountry trails is probably going to help more so than the equipment itself. It's one of the reasons why I think I enjoy tree skiing so much even though I'm not that good yet. It reminds me of the first time skiing the double blacks or something. It's challenging and always exciting to learn something new. 

 

I hope fear in unfamiliar or challenging trees is normal - otherwise I'll have to turn in my skier card! Seriously, that fear is telling you something. Are there less steep or less tight trees you can practice in?

 

Also, backcountry - is this true backcountry, ie, not controlled or patrolled by ski patrol from the resort? And if so, are you aware of what that entails?

post #43 of 47
Thread Starter 

@Wallee thanks for the tip! I definitely know that my technique isn't great right now and as I've mentioned before, it's probably the reason why I'm struggling through tight trees and not because of my equipment. 

post #44 of 47
Thread Starter 

Everyone, thank you. Really appreciate all your responses -- good and bad. Yes, I'm not that old as a 34 yr old so I apologize for even mentioning it. Seems like the conclusion is I need to improve on my own technique than worry about equipment. But if i needed to buy a new pair for tree skiing, look for something with rocker/camber/rocker (which I already have in my quiver) or go with a fully rockered skis with short turn radius but my current lineup of skis should be fine for my height and weight, but not look for short skis in hopes of bombing through tight trees because we should all appreciate just how fun and beautiful tree skiing is and not worry about going fast. Totally agree with all of this. 

 

Thanks again everyone! 

post #45 of 47

One other thing to note--tree wells. Learn how to self-arrest/hug a tree, carry a whistle, and use the buddy system.

post #46 of 47

I have no firsthand experience at Stowe, so I don't know how long powder truly sticks around- and I tend to equate my own tree skiing with powder.

 

But some things here. 

 

1. Your skis seem slightly long for your height and weight- I would normally look to place and advanced skier in the 175-185 range, with powder skis on the 185 side and hard snow skis on the 175 side.

 

2. For a tight trees ski, I look at good amounts of tip and tail taper more than a big rocker profile. Rockered tips that are still big and fat with get catchy and engage unpredictable, and aren;t what you want when you need to haul the skis over.

 

3. Tailgunning in trees is no-bueno. You need to get yourself balanced over the ski to make it nimble and to be able to quickly get them around through that next gap in the trees. When I find that I am having trouble getting into a consistent flow in the trees, it usually has to do with me skiing backseat, and the problem corrects when I get off the tails.  

post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by easternskr View Post

This may help with getting more confortable skiing in the trees. Find a shot through the trees that is within the resort boundaries, something you can do laps on. Do the same line over and over. You'll get more comfortable because the terrain (and the trees), will become more familiar. You'll start anticipating where the next turns will be. And quite possibly, because you have a better idea of where you're going, where the next turn is, you may start focusing just on how you're turning. You may even find yourself getting a little relaxed and enjoy the fact that you're skiing in the trees. After a while, take another line through the trees and do the same thing.

I don't know if this helps others but it has helped me out when attempting to ski terrain that seems harder and moredifficult.


This method was exactly what the instructor at Alta did with me and my ski buddy last season.  After we had worked on technique on groomers and done a few short tree shots to learn something new, we headed to harder terrain.  The first time he stayed on the slow side and would stop every so often.  Second time taking the same line, no stops.  The third time we were following closely and moving fast the entire time.  Somewhat tight trees, on the steep side, enough soft snow that skis were not always visible.  The longest and hardest line we did was perhaps a dozen turns before things opened out.  After the two lessons (one ski day in between), both of us were ready to try harder terrain than we used to ski.

 

I wanted to learned to handle trees in order to play in soft snow several days after a powder storm out west.  Started by working on technique in bumps (after age 50).  Most of the initial learning was done in the Mid-Atlantic, with a few lessons during trips out west.

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