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All-Mountain twin tip skis [for Europe]

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Hey guys!

 

Apologies for not being all that well informed, I've found it quite difficult to get information/advice about skis!

 

I'm looking at buying my first pair of skis and I've landed on the Volkl Mantra and Atomic Vantage Alibi. I'm looking for an all-purpose twin tip ski that I can use in most conditions and types of piste/lack thereof. Mainly going to be skiing groomed runs but venture off piste whenever possible, also starting to get some park in here and there. I'll be skiing in Europe (Switzerland, France, Austria) and I'd put my skill level at lower to mid advanced. I'm 5'11 and 80kg (~175lb) and ski between 7 and 14 days a year depending on the year. 

 

Would these be a good fit or do you have other recommendations? I'm also unsure as to what length would be suitable. Any help is much appreciated!

post #2 of 21

Hi

I'm not at all knowledgeable in twin tips with park bias, but I can tell you a couple of things:

 

- Those two are not twin tips

 

- The Mantra is a quite stiff all mountain and bit large under foot ski. Its good for off piste and maintains a hard snow grip (meaning when you hit that ice under powder or crud, it will hold better than softer skis out there)

 

- If you will spend most of the time on piste, I would go for something a bit more on the slim side (Mantra is 98mm or more under foot, kinda not fun in the hard piste). Kendo would fit the bill, maybe (also not twin tip)

 

- As far as length goes, it could be your height or a little bit more (so 180 to 185 cm?). Longer makes it stiff, more stable at speed. Shorter makes it a bit more nimble, easier to pivot. Skis with rocker tip/tails makes you want to go a bit longer

 

- The advantage of a park ski is that the flex will be a bit softer and more appropriate for doing tricks, and build is reinforced to withstand the abuse. The advntage of an all mountain ski is that its stiffness (noprmally presence of metal) will increase the snow performance

 

So in the all-mountain 80-something under foot, with metal, just some examples:
- Blizzard Brahma
- Volkl Kendo
- Volkl RTM

 

But this category is almost infinite

 

Maybe what would be good, if you have the patience and invest some money, would be that in your next trip  you rent the skis (do you have your boots dialed in?) in the shops that allow you to change skis several times (if you reserve in advance, there is a good discount in most places). This way you could do a big demo. Its goin to cost some money, but also will help you get exactly what you want.

 

 

Good luck

post #3 of 21
Nordica Fire Arrow 80 Pro is the ski you are looking for . Twin tip all mountain machine - with metal , but light - can be used in park and is a very very good ski overall.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

Nordica Fire Arrow 80 Pro is the ski you are looking for . Twin tip all mountain machine - with metal , but light - can be used in park and is a very very good ski overall.
Seriously? I demoed these at Copper Mountain and certainly don't remember them being a twin tip or even having much of a turned up tail.
post #5 of 21

The Fire Arrow is not a twin tip (it has a little flick at the tail, but that's it), same goes for the Mantra. The Alibi is a twin-tip, as is the Ritual and the Theory.

 

I loved the Ritual. Great allmountain ski. Very good on hard-pack in Sölden, nice in pow as well, and also in bumps. Good all-rounder, but it might be a little wide. The Alibi might be better suited for most conditions here in Europe. 

 

You could have a look at the Blizzard Peacemaker or Nordica Soulrider might be great options too. Not sure if they're any good in the park, but they are great allmountain twin-tips.

post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post


You could have a look at the Blizzard Peacemaker or Nordica Soulrider might be great options too. Not sure if they're any good in the park, but they are great allmountain twin-tips.

This^^^^
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

Nordica Fire Arrow 80 Pro is the ski you are looking for . Twin tip all mountain machine - with metal , but light - can be used in park and is a very very good ski overall.

Not this ^^^^ Not a twin as others have noted. Bogs baby! Why not suggest an entirely appropriate Head product like the Oblivion?
post #8 of 21
I recently bought Liberty Sequence (2015) and intend to use them in similar conditions/circumstances. Got them at ridiculously low price (under $200) and STP has them in 182cm which should be a good lenght for somebody your size. Might represent a good price/value/quality ratio for the first ski in this category.
post #9 of 21

Twin-tip? in mid-90's, sure: Volk Bridge.

 

P.S. till 2015 - no camber, after: camber

post #10 of 21

Hi welcome to Epic. At your weight, level (low intermediate) and and mission, (which includes park), most of the skis being suggested are inappropriate. Too beefy, wrong flex pattern. As you may know, park skis have a particular flex pattern that makes them a kick - literally and figuratively - in terrain and features, they can also be very nice in bumps (plenty of those in Europe) and on soft snow. Ice, not so much. So you need one of the types that have a bit more stiffness, bit more all-mountain aim. I'd suggest taking a look at the various wider all purpose park skis being made by Rossignol (like the Scratch), Volkl (the Wall is very nice, I once owned its ancestor), or some of the independents like Line or Armada (AR7). Good luck!

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Hi welcome to Epic. At your weight, level (low intermediate) and and mission, (which includes park), most of the skis being suggested are inappropriate. Too beefy, wrong flex pattern. As you may know, park skis have a particular flex pattern that makes them a kick - literally and figuratively - in terrain and features, they can also be very nice in bumps (plenty of those in Europe) and on soft snow. Ice, not so much. So you need one of the types that have a bit more stiffness, bit more all-mountain aim. I'd suggest taking a look at the various wider all purpose park skis being made by Rossignol (like the Scratch), Volkl (the Wall is very nice, I once owned its ancestor), or some of the independents like Line or Armada (AR7). Good luck!

then may be (unless park is more appropriate) 

Rossignol SLAT (60% park / 40% all-mountain) vs. Rossignol Scratch (90% park / 10% all-mountain) ?

per Volkl, the bridge is good too:  It’s a smooth, playful ride for the ultimate all mountain experience, ranging from big mountain conditions all the way to the park.  Fits both requirement, so, I guess the Thread Starter should demo both and find out which one is better suites for his needs and abilities.

 

P.S. I'm guessing this year Bridge will be cambered (back again) which is better on groomers and hard snow.

 

Ski availability (new, sale, used) --> Skier Ability  --> Terrain condition (on-piste, off-piste, park) --> Price

post #12 of 21
Salomon Rocker2 100. Look no further. Just ski it a size up.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Seriously? I demoed these at Copper Mountain and certainly don't remember them being a twin tip or even having much of a turned up tail.
I am talking about the 2013 80 pro that is twin tip and has nothing to do with the later models fire arrow 84, 84 edit etc.I have been on these ski for some time and they perfectly match the op's requirements ( at least way more then the ski from his list and for his level as well) All mountain park ski is always a compromise .
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Not this ^^^^ Not a twin as others have noted. Bogs baby! Why not suggest an entirely appropriate Head product like the Oblivion?
You should read the op's requirements a little better . He wants an all mountain ski with some park capability " starting to get some park here and there " he says. Think ! For all mountain skiing you definatelly need some tail.For park skiing you better have twin tip.You need the perfect compromise here -- and the 80 pro is one of them.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post


I am talking about the 2013 80 pro that is twin tip and has nothing to do with the later models fire arrow 84, 84 edit etc.I have been on these ski for some time and they perfectly match the op's requirements ( at least way more then the ski from his list and for his level as well) All mountain park ski is always a compromise .

That ski is now 3 seasons old and will be very difficult to find.

post #16 of 21

OP is buying "first pair of skis."

 

OP is looking for a ski that he is "mainly going to be skiing groomed runs but venture off piste whenever possible, also starting to get some park in here and there."

 

OP is "lower to mid advanced."

 

I am standing by my earlier recommendation - get a good deal on well researched ski that fits this parameters and could be found at a great discount. If you can demo some skis - even better !

 

"First ski" is like a "first sex" - memorable but not great.

post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCookie View Post

 

- Blizzard Brahma
- Volkl Kendo
- Volkl RTM

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

Nordica Fire Arrow 80 Pro (2013)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post

 

Blizzard Peacemaker or Nordica Soulrider (+ Alibi)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Head Oblivion

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goranmilos View Post

Liberty Sequence (2015)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

Volk Bridge.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

Salomon Rocker2 100
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

Volkl Bridge 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions! Will have a further look into all of the above.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Hi welcome to Epic. At your weight, level (low intermediate) and and mission, (which includes park), most of the skis being suggested are inappropriate. Too beefy, wrong flex pattern. As you may know, park skis have a particular flex pattern that makes them a kick - literally and figuratively - in terrain and features, they can also be very nice in bumps (plenty of those in Europe) and on soft snow. Ice, not so much. So you need one of the types that have a bit more stiffness, bit more all-mountain aim. I'd suggest taking a look at the various wider all purpose park skis being made by Rossignol (like the Scratch), Volkl (the Wall is very nice, I once owned its ancestor), or some of the independents like Line or Armada (AR7). Good luck!

 

 

Thanks Beyond! I'd put my level at lower-middle advanced, not low intermediate, if that were to change you mind as to the suitability of the skis that were suggested? I'll make sure to keep the flex pattern in mind when looking around and I'll have a look at the ones you've suggested!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCookie View Post

 

Maybe what would be good, if you have the patience and invest some money, would be that in your next trip  you rent the skis (do you have your boots dialed in?) in the shops that allow you to change skis several times (if you reserve in advance, there is a good discount in most places). This way you could do a big demo. Its goin to cost some money, but also will help you get exactly what you want.

 

Will probably end up doing this. Seems like the best way to make sure that I'm making the correct choice. 

post #18 of 21
Armada AR7 fits the bill. My son uses these for every condition you mentioned and they can be found now on nice discounts. Even the previous year's model if you like that top sheet better.
post #19 of 21

Getting back to your original query...

 

The Mantra is definitely stiffer and you need to be "on it."  Very good at what it does, but based on your self description, it may be more demanding than you might prefer.

 

The Alibi is a very competent, versatile, user friendly ski that should meet all your needs.  It also tends to be sold at a lower price than many of the other skis suggested.  It's also been in  production unchanged for several years, so you might  be able to get one from a prior year at a good price.  You should be very happy with them.

 

Demo if possible.  Good luck!

post #20 of 21

For my hard-earned money, Dynastar's Cham 87's are wonderful skis for European Alps, they can handle hard pack corduroy with finesse and grace, and turn smoothy, power through crud, and lift those tips out of foot deep powder with gliding grace. Check them out. They were the best skis I found from skiing several, yes, Elan, Stockli's , Kastle's etc. Those were just perfect and do not feel like heavy monstrosities, slick, fast, supple in the turn, and stable , so stable. Just an experiential 2 c input.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Hi welcome to Epic. At your weight, level (low intermediate) and and mission, (which includes park), most of the skis being suggested are inappropriate. Too beefy, wrong flex pattern. As you may know, park skis have a particular flex pattern that makes them a kick - literally and figuratively - in terrain and features, they can also be very nice in bumps (plenty of those in Europe) and on soft snow. Ice, not so much. So you need one of the types that have a bit more stiffness, bit more all-mountain aim. I'd suggest taking a look at the various wider all purpose park skis being made by Rossignol (like the Scratch), Volkl (the Wall is very nice, I once owned its ancestor), or some of the independents like Line or Armada (AR7). Good luck!

 

Wow, we're all over the map here in terms of the skis being recommended.

 

For what it's worth I agree with the above.  If you're heading for the park for any part of your day you should be looking for a twin tip, and some of the skis mentioned in the thread above are not twins.  Given your preferred terrain you should probably go for an all mountain twin that is capable in the park, rather than a ski that is park-specific (park-specific skis are more centre-mounted and symmetrical in shape).  Something along the lines of the Volkl Kink would fit the bill, although most manufacturers make something similar.

 

Best of luck.

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