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Marker love

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Seems to be more live for other bindings than marker on this site. Curious if that's actually so and, if so, why. I have marker griffons now which I like and have had a lot of marker prior too

Thx
post #2 of 21
I always seem to end up on Markers, mostly because they're ubiquitous and I usually don't buy new skis and bindings a la carte. I.e. I buy the used skis I'm looking for at a reasonable price and am stuck with the binders. Obviously that's my choice in terms of priorities. I don't care QUITE enough about the bindings to spend a lot more or sacrifice on ski condition to get exactly the ones I want. I don't really like the Markers, though, and given a choice I would generally pick a different brand.

Why? Well, before explaining I should mention that each toe heel combo I've owned has been just a little different. E.g., the Kastle-branded markers have the "royals toe" but the older pre-Royals heel. Meanwhile I had a pair of Blizzards where the system binding was the opposite: royals heel with the older Biometric toe. You get the idea. Anyway, the only set that has "just worked" at my nominal DIN is the non-demo set of Griffons on my Armadas. On all of the other pairs I've had to tweak the DIN at heel, toe, or both to prevent pre-release. That trial-and-error process is a pain in the butt at best, and a safety risk at worst. Important to note that, yes, had them all checked by shop(s) with torque meter, verified forward pressure settings, yada yada. Meanwhile every single pair of Looks I've ever been on I've set at 6 and been good from there out. Never had a pre-release.

I have spent ten or twelve days now on a pair of the Tyrolia Attack 13s that many here have praised and so far I'm extremely happy with them, but it's early days and I don't have enough time on them on different skis and in different conditions to be able to say that I've settled on them as my favorites. Couple things I can say about them with some certainty. One is that they were super affordable. I got a pair of the Fischer-branded ones from my favorite shop (Ski Depot) when they were selling them new late in the season for about $125.00. (!) That is about the best value in bindings that I can imagine. Another thing is that - unlike many other bindings - they feel really planted on the ski even when the boot is not latched in: Not a hint of wiggle or play in either toe or heel.

I tend to stay away from Salomon, especially the demos. Have owned a few pairs over the years. Best one was one circa 1999 with the "oversize spherical" (I think? Phil?) toe. They were very solid. Otherwise just have not liked them. No reason that would stand up to close scrutiny. Many of their models just seem kind of heavy and cheap-feeling at the same time. E.g., the system binders that come on recent Atomic Nomad series skis. Bad combination. This is purely a non-engineer's seat-of-the-pants subjective evaluation and is entirely unscientific. The root of it is probably that many many years ago I sustained an injury from the heelpiece cocking lever on a pair of Sollies (while they were still on my feet!) and I haven't ever gotten over that.
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
The look heel always looked funky to me. Too big and wouldn't snow clog in there and be hard to click in?

I prefer the traditional toe and low profile heel, though the Griffons are neither. Might go with that Head Mojo deal linked recently.

I like the ski depot, too. I live in Boston but my inlaws live in Rangeley so we hit Saddleback often. Love it.

Funny, I saw a ski depot sticker in a basement ski locker in Wengen this past winter. Was that you?!?!
post #4 of 21

I've had no problems with several marker bindings but I prefer Salomon STH's because they are easier to step into in soft snow. As far as ski-ability, release and retention problems, no issues, although I almost never fall and almost never release (not because I'm that good; because I'm that cautious, and when I do fall it's usually a low speed harmless fall up the hill sideways.) Also snow gets trapped in the heel pieces of Markers and melts in the back of my car.

post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
That's a good point. My griffons are a little more difficult to click into in soft snow.
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonD999 View Post

That's a good point. My griffons are a little more difficult to click into in soft snow.

No complaints with Griffons as far as release/retention but I replaced my Griffons on my powder skis with Salomon STH 13s for the above reason. AFAIK Marker Squires have the same difficult to step into in deep snow problem.

post #7 of 21
I'll never buy Griffons again. I've actually thought of ripping them off my skis. They squeak with every turn unless I raise the sole plate a bit every few weeks. I've started keeping an Allen key in my locker.
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

No complaints with Griffons as far as release/retention but I replaced my Griffons on my powder skis with Salomon STH 13s for the above reason. AFAIK Marker Squires have the same difficult to step into in deep snow problem.

 

The marker squires are actually harder than the griffon to step into. Contrary to the fact that the squires has a lower starting DIN and targeted for lighter skiers.

 

We have over 10 pairs of marker royals (squires, griffon & jester) on our skis, so we are pretty familiar with them. Last season we have been switching to Tyrolia Attack 13s & 16s on most of the new skis. The Tyrolia Attack is easier to step in and also have reduced ramp angle. The flatter stance feels especially nice on soft snow skis.    

post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

The Tyrolia Attack is easier to step in and also have reduced ramp angle. The flatter stance feels especially nice on soft snow skis.    

 

I thought the Griffons were already flat in terms of ramp.

post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post

 

I thought the Griffons were already flat in terms of ramp.

 

The griffon had a delta of 10 mm while the Tyrolia is at 4 mm.

post #11 of 21

Ok, my mistake.  I've seen various posts on this board and others that say they're flat, but binding ramp information is hard to come by, and often inaccurate.  There's two separate opinions in the attached SnowHeads link, for instance, and the following link says "flat ramp angle".

 

http://www.skibartlett.com/marker-binding-griffon-13-freestyle-2012-666-p.asp

 

 

But photos are handy.

 

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1356010&highlight=#1356010

 

 

[edit - I originally said "photos don't lie", but since Photoshop I'm not sure that's 100% true.]

 


Edited by sinbad7 - 5/18/15 at 5:06am
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I'll never buy Griffons again. I've actually thought of ripping them off my skis. They squeak with every turn unless I raise the sole plate a bit every few weeks. I've started keeping an Allen key in my locker.
Hate the squeaking. Esp when it's cold and you're in the woods. It sounds like whining here but when it happens it's really annoying.

My Griffons failed the binding check. Heel was out more than 2 DIN. Never had a binding fail before. It's not uncommon with the Griffons I was told at the shop.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

The Tyrolia Attack is easier to step in and also have reduced ramp angle. The flatter stance feels especially nice on soft snow skis.    

 

I thought the Griffons were already flat in terms of ramp.

IIRC, the first year Griffon/Jesters had about 2* of ramp with the "block" toe, then it was changed as the binding evolved. 

post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

No complaints with Griffons as far as release/retention but I replaced my Griffons on my powder skis with Salomon STH 13s for the above reason. AFAIK Marker Squires have the same difficult to step into in deep snow problem.

 

The marker squires are actually harder than the griffon to step into. Contrary to the fact that the squires has a lower starting DIN and targeted for lighter skiers.

 

We have over 10 pairs of marker royals (squires, griffon & jester) on our skis, so we are pretty familiar with them. Last season we have been switching to Tyrolia Attack 13s & 16s on most of the new skis. The Tyrolia Attack is easier to step in and also have reduced ramp angle. The flatter stance feels especially nice on soft snow skis.    

I agree, the Squire is just a bad binding. I have gone toe to toe with my local Marker rep on why I wouldn't sell that binding especially to lightweight skiers (specifically women) with short BSL's. These skiers just do not have the mass to step into the heel. The problem with this series of binding is not so much the hinge point of the heel but the amount of forward pressure that is required for the binding to perform properly. What I DID like about the Griffon & Jester's were their demo versions, it was one of the few demo bindings that skied and reacted like their retail counterpart so when I tested a ski with that binding I knew how the ski reached and the performance did't get masked by the binding's inefficiency. Downside was that they are a PITA to adjust and there is not a demo booth that I went to with these bindings that I didn't have to get in and out of the funding numerous times to make sure the forward pressure was correct. The new Attack demo binding has addressed this issue plus you don't need a Pozi to set the binding. 

 

On the Race side, ask Marcel Hirscher about Markers, he was willing to risk (I am sure) a very lucrative contract with Atomic to ski Marker bindings and specifically their piston plate. The jury is still out on their new X-Cell bindings though, I saw 3-4 come in broken last year, NOT good for a binding that has been on the market less than 2 years. For racers, a binding is all about confidence and the X-Cell has not been instilling it. 

 

Yes, I am a bit of a binding geek and I do overthink it a bit, but for 90+ percent of the skiers out there Marker is making a fine product and their sales show it, the Griffon and Squire are the two best selling bindings on the market. Their system bindings are the most common on the market. They are doing many things right. 

post #15 of 21

I don't sweat bindings that match race skis/plates (Atomic X series on my Atomics, Look Pivot on my Dynastars and Marker Comps on my Volkls) but all of my free skis have Pivot/FKS.  I like the retention, low swing weight, and best in the business elasticity.   I haven't tried STH's but I would give them a go.  While they may take more focus to center the turntable after a release, being able to pull them on by the dildo when in deep snow can be really helpful, almost as good as the old Marker MRR turntable that had no pre-load (loved those heals).

 

The only binding related injury I've had was a tib-fib when on early 90's vintage MRRs that didn't release so there is a mojo thing but I wouldn't buy Marker rec bindings. 

post #16 of 21

After several seasons, I am quite happy with my Marker Dukes- 98% used inside the resort.

 

Never noticed any squeaking.

 

Step in effort is definitely higher than other bindings, but I don't weigh 150 lbs so it has not been a major issue for me.

 

My preference tends to be Salomon bindings, but I need to be honest and say that is borne out of familiarity more than anything else.

 

I have a set of Head/Tyrolias on the way that I am excited about.

 

For the most part, I follow the deals and buy the most robust binding I can afford, from any manufacturer. My only real preference is to avoid Biometric toe Markers (which are pretty much extinct except for race stuff), but even there I skied a set for several seasons and didn't have prerelease issues, so...

post #17 of 21

I prefer a decent amount of ramp in my bindings, and the old Looks are my preferred rig.  Of course, I have a few Head skis which are set up with various Tyrolias.  I've had zero problems with Tyrolia bindings.

 

I'm just arranging to remove a pair of last year's Griffons from my GF's skis.  She struggles to click into them - one of them in particular.  I'm replacing them with a Tyrolia PRD 12.

post #18 of 21

I thought the squeaking was my knees.  

post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
 

I prefer a decent amount of ramp in my bindings, and the old Looks are my preferred rig.  Of course, I have a few Head skis which are set up with various Tyrolias.  I've had zero problems with Tyrolia bindings.

 

Same here, I used a pair of Fischers with FF16's attached, no problems. Got new Head GS skis, used em a couple times. The binding released when I went 'exit stage right' and stayed on when it was choppy. Been a happy clam.

 

Used a pair of slalom Ogasakas' with Marker xcell bindings, was having toe knockout problems and the ski brake broke. I pretty much gave those skis away.

I changed my slalom ski half way through the season to an older Rossignol, no problems.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Marker. Their piston plate is fantastic, and the Comp model is great, but the new xcell has been too many problems for me.

 

Comp line - Great

XCell - Meh, free ski it's alright.

post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
 

I prefer a decent amount of ramp in my bindings, and the old Looks are my preferred rig.  Of course, I have a few Head skis which are set up with various Tyrolias.  I've had zero problems with Tyrolia bindings.

 

I'm just arranging to remove a pair of last year's Griffons from my GF's skis.  She struggles to click into them - one of them in particular.  I'm replacing them with a Tyrolia PRD 12.

This can be an issue especially if you have rubber heel soles like on some of the Langes. The rubber compresses and doesn't supply force so it's really difficult to get in. You can change out some of the soles with plastic and it helps.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

This can be an issue especially if you have rubber heel soles like on some of the Langes. The rubber compresses and doesn't supply force so it's really difficult to get in. You can change out some of the soles with plastic and it helps.

 

I can imagine that a rubber heel block wouldn't help, although that's not the problem here.  I made sure any slight burr was removed from her heel - not much difference.  Silicon spray on the binding helped a little, but wasn't a true solution.  "A slight improvement" wasn't needed, we needed "much easier".  It's just the design, and the forward pressure required on the Griffon.  Solution = Tyrolia in this instance.  I'll hang onto the Griffons and mount them onto something myself.  Depending on the ramp I may need to raise the heel height a tad to suit.

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