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Nordica Fire Arrow 76 Ti N Pro PR EVo 2015 - factory de-tune?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hello!

 

I just bought a new pair of Nordica Fire Arrow 76 Ti-N Pro p.r. Evo 2015, 176 cm. I've noticed that the tips and tails have blunt edges, instead of being tip to tail sharp (tip - on a 100-200 mm length including the tip; tail - on a 50-100 length including the tail), like they are "de-tuned" - please see the picture attached. Is this a regular practice for this kind of skis? Is this a Nordica factory tuning made for this model or this is a manufacturing defect? The shop I bought them from has only mounted the bindings, without tuning or de-tuning the skis.

 

Secondary, if I decide to sharp them, would this be an easy thing to do without compromising the edge angle, considering that a part of the material has been removed?

 

I appreciate having your opinions. I am an advanced skier, I ski on groomed terrain, I prefer to carve.

 

Thank you!

post #2 of 16

An advanced skier knows the answer to your question.  Seriously, want to find out why you don't want them razor sharp tip to tail?  Just have them done that way and see how they handle.

post #3 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2SKI View Post
 

Hello!

 

I just bought a new pair of Nordica Fire Arrow 76 Ti-N Pro p.r. Evo 2015, 176 cm. I've noticed that the tips and tails have blunt edges, instead of being tip to tail sharp (tip - on a 100-200 mm length including the tip; tail - on a 50-100 length including the tail), like they are "de-tuned" - please see the picture attached. Is this a regular practice for this kind of skis? Is this a Nordica factory tuning made for this model or this is a manufacturing defect? The shop I bought them from has only mounted the bindings, without tuning or de-tuning the skis.

 

Secondary, if I decide to sharp them, would this be an easy thing to do without compromising the edge angle, considering that a part of the material has been removed?

 

I appreciate having your opinions. I am an advanced skier, I ski on groomed terrain, I prefer to carve.

 

Thank you!

 

Okay, wow, maybe it's just the magnification, but that looks like someone ran that edge at a 45 degree angle right up against a power stone or a belt or something. Holy smokes. I don't see you filing that sharp without taking off a whole lot of metal. This isn't on the actual turned-up part of the tip, is it? (That would make sense.) If it's behind the contact point, that just looks wrong to me - especially on that kind of a ski. Interested to hear what the more expert tuners here will say, like @zentune or @Atomicman.

post #4 of 16

Looks like an intentional detune, though for what reason I can't fathom.  Definitely wrong, I'd talk to the shop about this and see if they'll provide new skis as a correct sharpening will reduce the life.

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

An advanced skier knows the answer to your question.  Seriously, want to find out why you don't want them razor sharp tip to tail?  Just have them done that way and see how they handle.
Hi!
It s not that I don't want them tuned tip to tail, it's just the way they came, I just wanna find out if there's a rational reason for this.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Okay, wow, maybe it's just the magnification, but that looks like someone ran that edge at a 45 degree angle right up against a power stone or a belt or something. Holy smokes. I don't see you filing that sharp without taking off a whole lot of metal. This isn't on the actual turned-up part of the tip, is it? (That would make sense.) If it's behind the contact point, that just looks wrong to me - especially on that kind of a ski. Interested to hear what the more expert tuners here will say, like @zentune
 or @Atomicman
.

Hi!
It is magnification indeed, this is the exact contact point (more or less in the middle of the frame) and the material has been removed at 45 degrees. As you can see to the right, the blunt continues under the contact point - it decreases like 4" from the contact point to where the edge gets its sharpness back- this seems too much to me. This is the most affected edge, the other three are de-tuned on a smaller lenght and with less material waste. I just wanna figure if Nordica has considered de tuning them for a better maneuverability or just someone has done an unadvised "improvement" of the skis.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Looks like an intentional detune, though for what reason I can't fathom.  Definitely wrong, I'd talk to the shop about this and see if they'll provide new skis as a correct sharpening will reduce the life.

Hi!
An answer from your shop would really help. Actually there are two: if this could be an intentional advised factory de-tune and secondary, if re-sharpening would significantly reduce their life. Thanks!
post #8 of 16
^^^

I think oldschoolskier is advising YOU to ask YOUR shop these questions.
post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

^^^

I think oldschoolskier is advising YOU to ask YOUR shop these questions.


Exactly!

 

Thanks qcanoe for catching it and making it clear.

 

W2SKI, the shop could have missed it, give them a chance as a reject may have slipped through to all the check points.

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hi!

 

I've asked my local official Nordica dealer to provide me with an answer and will also check this with the previous official Nordica dealer.

I've also written to Nordica for the second time today, I guess this second attempt won't be luckier than the previous one.

In the meantime, I would still appreciate the opinion of the expert tuners on epicski.

Thank you!

post #11 of 16
Pm sent

zenny
post #12 of 16
This actually brings up a very important point that I want to make regarding ski selection...just because they are new, and in the plastic in the shop, do not assume that each pair of the same brand/model/length are identical. Instead, if you have multiple "identical" pairs to choose from, inspect them first. Look for gaps in the sidewalls, base flatness (if you have a true bar or can borrow one from the shop), double camber from contact point to contact point, signs of delamintation usually near tip or tail, bluntness as per the OP, and other signs of overall poor finish.

Even with stock race boards, if I am lucky enough to have a choice I inspect them first before making a selection as the finishing processes are not uniform from ski to ski smile.gif

zenny
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thank you Zenny,

 

I bought them online on sport-conrad.com, so checking/choosing them were out of the question. It seems that they have been their last pair - the item is no longer available. Judging by the reduced price 400 eur instead of 700 (true, among a whole list of other reduced skies/brands) still makes me think they might have been an item they just wanted to get rid of, for particular reasons like that.

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

This actually brings up a very important point that I want to make regarding ski selection...just because they are new, and in the plastic in the shop, do not assume that each pair of the same brand/model/length are identical. Instead, if you have multiple "identical" pairs to choose from, inspect them first. Look for gaps in the sidewalls, base flatness (if you have a true bar or can borrow one from the shop), double camber from contact point to contact point, signs of delamintation usually near tip or tail, bluntness as per the OP, and other signs of overall poor finish.

Even with stock race boards, if I am lucky enough to have a choice I inspect them first before making a selection as the finishing processes are not uniform from ski to ski smile.gif

zenny

 

Yup. I was in a time crunch when I bought my last pair of skis - long story - and did not do this. The result is below. Coincidentally, another Nordica. You'd think if they're going to go to all the trouble to show off the construction that they'd pay attention when assembling the layup. Fortunately I bought them from a good shop that is going to take care of the issue to my satisfaction.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 

Well, I just took a visit to a very appreciated ski technician, some 110 miles to the mountains :)

 

Bad news, good news - in this specific order. The bad news, as some of you have noticed, the skis can not regain their tip to tail sharpness unless removing too much material, option he/I totally excluded.

 

The good news was that by tuning them - nothing more than the edge tuning recommended for new skis - I would regain some 1-2 inches, decreasing the blunt length and width. The real good news is that considering the length of the skis and their 15.5 radius (not an SL ski), the fact that I'm an advanced but not an expert or professional skier and nor me or the skis will take part to ski competitions, the tuning will be more than enough to make me forget there use to be a problem. I trust him.

 

He tuned both base and edge and the result is far better. The look and feel is totally different - I've totally regained tails and partially the tips - although it is not blade sharp, now the edge doesn't look/feel blunt anymore.

 

This will probably disappoint some of you, but, despite a let's say good technique, I believe that with this tuning, I won't feel the difference. No matter I've already done the tuning, I've asked the shop I bought the skis from to clear their position/solution about sending me a defective ski. I don't plan to replace the product, but I wait for their reply.

post #16 of 16

Glad you at least got to a ski-able ski. performing at least to your expectations.

 

Over the next couple of tunes it can only get better while still giving life on the ski.

 

Hopefully Nordica or the retailer still step up and take care of you.

 

Good luck and enjoy the slopes.

 

Cheers,

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