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Define Intermediate Plateau. When does it end? - Page 10

post #271 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

If one can make good turns off piste, one can also make good turns on groomers.

Most have issues in off piste conditions because their "good" groomer turns are not good enough.

 

Exactly.  My point being that you can learn to make good turns all over the mountain.  Back when I started forcing myself off-piste more frequently I quickly noticed how much improved my skiing was on groomers.

post #272 of 299
Well there's plenty of people having fun making bad turns on and off piste.
post #273 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

 

Exactly.  My point being that you can learn to make good turns all over the mountain.  Back when I started forcing myself off-piste more frequently I quickly noticed how much improved my skiing was on groomers.

 

Yup, variety is the key. The off piste stuff makes one balanced and nimble. That really translate back into the groomer turns.

post #274 of 299
Funny. I started out skiing off piste early in my ski history. It wasn't till later the groom got my attention. Da drills & carve.
post #275 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

Exactly.  My point being that you can learn to make good turns all over the mountain.  Back when I started forcing myself off-piste more frequently I quickly noticed how much improved my skiing was on groomers.

And thus you answer the original question about the plateau perfectly with the least amount of words.

 

PS that was a compliment;)

post #276 of 299
Not that my thoughts matter much, but having skied both the Midwest during a spectacular year, and the PNW in a very low snow year, I had a lot of fun skiing both. Overall, I still preferred the variety of even the limited terrain of Crystal Mountain West. In my mind, one should seek to be versatile enough to ski whatever the hill offers.

I will say that I know many very competent off piste western skiers who can't hook up a high angle turn on piste to save their lives. I also know strong piste skiers who just don't roll and flow off piste. I've been both in my lifetime, and am of the opinion that 'either/or' skiing makes Jack a dull boy. It takes some mileage and the 'will' to go where we're not quite as good to get past our technical and psychological plateaus.
post #277 of 299
I thought special skis got one off the plateau off piste?
post #278 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

I thought special skis got one off the plateau off piste?

I spent most of my off piste days this season on an 85 and an 81. The 81 was the same ski for the Midwest. No magic fairy dust. smile.gif I'll say though that the conditions in the upper Midwest were truly stunning... Total hero groomer ripp'in stuff; some firm, but not nearly as hard as we had this winter out around here.
post #279 of 299

Off-piste was always fun for me, even before I could make "good" turns.  Groomers were only fun going mach schnell at first, and then later going slower, but with good high g-force turns.  Now, it's all good.

post #280 of 299
Looking back I have been on intermediate plateau for quite some time. Not sure if I've managed to leave it yet.
post #281 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

I thought special skis got one off the plateau off piste?

If one falls off the plateau in a forest, and nobody is around to hear, did it make a sound?
post #282 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Looking back I have been on intermediate plateau for quite some time. Not sure if I've managed to leave it yet.

Is this step one; the 'problem', accepting it and moving on is the beginning of the 'end of the plateau'.

 

If alcoholics are powerless over alcohol, gravity empowers skiers, gravity, snow, and terrain makes the skier the same way booze makes an alcoholic.  Only difference, skiing is considered healthy.

 

And yes, I am a ski-aholic.

post #283 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

If one falls off the plateau in a forest, and nobody is around to hear, did it make a sound?

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sound - In physics, sound is a vibration that propagates as a typically audible mechanical wave of pressure and displacement, through a medium such as air or water. In physiology and psychology, sound is the reception of such waves and their perception by the brain.

 

If you consider humans to be the center of the universe. The answer is “NO”. Otherwise, yes. 

post #284 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

Is this step one; the 'problem', accepting it and moving on is the beginning of the 'end of the plateau'.

If alcoholics are powerless over alcohol, gravity empowers skiers, gravity, snow, and terrain makes the skier the same way booze makes an alcoholic.  Only difference, skiing is considered healthy.

And yes, I am a ski-aholic.

Unfortunately self assessment isn't one of my strong suits. Maybe someone can take a look at one of the MA videos I posted and make a judgment on where I'm at? biggrin.gif
post #285 of 299
Drifting into another MA thread might not be a bad tangent because it certainly would address the mechanical aspects of that skier's skiing. Sadly it also opens up the door to the commentor's philisophical biases as well. That is the difficulty here.

I would love to read about the skier and their goals, where they see themself now and what they are doing to get to where they see themself in the future.
The plan, or lack of one, is the key here. Assuming they have a plan, does that plan include improvement, stasis, or decline? Does it include a change to factors that have so far limited their progress? Or is it lip service?
I have often written about Einstein's saying where doing the same things but expecting different outcomes is unrealistic. So here is the thing I feel is most important, finding out and thus knowing what to change and then finding the will to actually make those changes is exactly when the flat section of our learning curve ends. It might mean moving closer to a ski resort, working out more, becoming involved in a ski organization or two, reading a book or two, or hiring a coach/mentor or two. In other words it is hardly limited to the mechanical aspects of our skiing.
post #286 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Unfortunately self assessment isn't one of my strong suits. Maybe someone can take a look at one of the MA videos I posted and make a judgment on where I'm at? biggrin.gif

jzmtl,

Lift your hips about 3 inches higher off the snow than they are in your avatar and point the ski pole a safer direction. Do this and you'll be a better skier than anyone on the CSIA or PSIA "demo" teams.
post #287 of 299
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Good point, q.
Many years ago, as I came off the beginner plateau, I started to hate groomers. At the Mammoth Gathering in 2013 I suddenly realized that better skis and better technique had made groomers fun again.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Unfortunately self assessment isn't one of my strong suits. Maybe someone can take a look at one of the MA videos I posted and make a judgment on where I'm at? biggrin.gif

jzmtl,

Lift your hips about 3 inches higher off the snow than they are in your avatar and point the ski pole a safer direction. Do this and you'll be a better skier than anyone on the CSIA or PSIA "demo" teams.


He's sitting static on the snow, sharpe.

post #288 of 299
See why developing a student's complete personal profile is so important! SE assumes the picture represents an action shot. LF assumes it is not.
I am unsure if that photo means very much either way. All I really know is jzmtl wrote about having been on an intermediate plateau for a long time. What he means by that needs context IMO. Can you help us out jzmtl?
post #289 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

 


He's sitting static on the snow, sharpe.


Obviously.  And posing for a cool angle photo on the snow, but with pole pointed in a dangerous way.

 

That's why I suggested raising the hip 3 inches off the snow and suggested that accomplishing this convert make him/her a strong skier. 

post #290 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

See why developing a student's complete personal profile is so important! SE assumes the picture represents an action shot. LF assumes it is not.
I am unsure if that photo means very much either way. All I really know is jzmtl wrote about having been on an intermediate plateau for a long time. What he means by that needs context IMO. Can you help us out jzmtl?

JASP,  You miss the joke.  The avatar was a clever staged shot from a still position sitting on snow.  (nice photo)  I suggested that raising the hip a bit off the snow would convert the sitting skier into a world class skier.

post #291 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

JASP,  You miss the joke.  The avatar was a clever staged shot from a still position sitting on snow.  (nice photo)  I suggested that raising the hip a bit off the snow would convert the sitting skier into a world class skier.

Actually it wasn't staged. I was trying to get up after faceplanted while goofing around on flats, while everybody is laughing their butt off including me.



What I mean by being on intermediate plateau is I felt I was good, and didn't know how to improve, but in actuality I was just park and ride on groomed snow and couldn't handle anything else. I've since realized how much I suck and how much I'm missing, and began to address those problems.

This is a video from 13/14 season, at the end of which is about when I realized I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was, and this season I've been working on skills I'm missing like bumps, and steering.
post #292 of 299
Fair enough, LF seemed to not get your joke either. So maybe it was too clever for us. That notwithstanding the habit I described is prevelent here at Epic. Just sayin...
post #293 of 299
Quote:

This is a video from 13/14 season, at the end of which is about when I realized I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was, and this season I've been working on skills I'm missing like bumps, and steering.

You look a little stiff. I recommend increased flexing. 

On the groomed from 13/14, flex that inside leg more and tip that inside ski more (you need to get the inside out of the way so you can tip more).

In the bumps, flex both legs more as you go over the bumps (don't forget to push them down again in the troughs).

In the steering video, try flexing the old outside leg to release the old turn and get into the new turn.

post #294 of 299

jzmtl, you are not an intermediate skier.  Own that truth.  Your bump run proves that.

 

Is it great bump skiing?  No, but you have skills.  Your groomed skiing show that even more.

 

I do like the term "advanced" between intermediate and expert.  You are very much an advanced skier, not an intermediate imo

post #295 of 299
Thread Starter 

Well, I did think it was a joke, and I thought sharpedges missed it.  I missed that he did get it, and jasp missed that I did get it.

Web communication is missing a few vital ingredients communicated normally by voice and body, so we miss each other regularly.

Oh well.  Just an internet thing I guess.

post #296 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

jzmtl, you are not an intermediate skier.  Own that truth.  Your bump run proves that.

 

Is it great bump skiing?  No, but you have skills.  Your groomed skiing show that even more.

 

I do like the term "advanced" between intermediate and expert.  You are very much an advanced skier, not an intermediate imo


I think you hit it right on.  And the difference between advanced and expert is very slim.

 

IMHO a lot of skiers at the upper end under rate themselves as they find progress has slowed down dramatically as most progress is just refinement and retuning of existing skills.  It is one of those things you wake up one morning and realize you are at the upper end and don't know how you got there.  Once you come to that realization, progress appears to appear again, as now you relax enough to enjoy what is happening and are less worried about progressing.

post #297 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

jzmtl, you are not an intermediate skier.  Own that truth.  Your bump run proves that.

Is it great bump skiing?  No, but you have skills.  Your groomed skiing show that even more.

I do like the term "advanced" between intermediate and expert.  You are very much an advanced skier, not an intermediate imo

Glad to hear it otherwise, but I certainly don't feel advanced when I struggle in bumps and trees. tongue.gif

Believe it or not, when that 13/14 video was shot, I absolutely cannot handle bumps, I was crashing after 1 or 2. The pivotal moment was when we had several days of spring slushy and combined with man made bumps on gentle slopes allowed me to do it without gaining any speed and revert back to survival mode, that really helped me getting the basic movements.

I guess since nobody showed me the skier progression chart, so I didn't follow the typical path. tongue.gif
Edited by jzmtl - 5/21/15 at 6:45pm
post #298 of 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post
 

Is this step one; the 'problem', accepting it and moving on is the beginning of the 'end of the plateau'.

 

If alcoholics are powerless over alcohol, gravity empowers skiers, gravity, snow, and terrain makes the skier the same way booze makes an alcoholic.  Only difference, skiing is considered healthy.

 

And yes, I am a ski-aholic.

I'd rather ski with a ski-aholic who likes to drink than an alcoholic who likes to ski. There's always time to pee your pants later in the day.

post #299 of 299
Thanks jzmtl for the clarification.
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