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Tuning New skis

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Heya!

First of all, I did search and read several other treads. I recently got some new racetigers gs skis, and I mounted the bindings and skied them out of the box. Amazing!! Then, asking around, my friend told me we could set the base angle together. This was my first time really considered tuning techniques. I happily thanked yes, and he told me .5 base and 2 side would be good for me. We took the file, side guide bla bla bla, you know how it's done smile.gif

Afterwards, doing tons of research on diy tuning, I realised I should get a shop to check if the base is flat, am I right? Also, do I want them to set the base angle again, as we struggled reaching it with the file? (The side worked out perfect, lots of strips of metal coming off and darn sharp). Finally, how much can you tune a ski with files or finer diamond stones till a ski is dead? How much do I need to think about the durability, reading many of you tune every day?

Thanks in advantage
post #2 of 23
I believe those skis come with a one degree base bevel. The only way to go less, ie. 0.5, is a base grind. Can't be done with a file. They are likely messed up enough now you should find a good professional.
post #3 of 23
Also. 0.5 base is pretty flat for a gs ski.
post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post

I believe those skis come with a one degree base bevel. The only way to go less, ie. 0.5, is a base grind. Can't be done with a file. They are likely messed up enough now you should find a good professional.

 

 

Agreed 100%.  Base edge bevel is set after the ski is ground flat.  If it was at 1degree and you used a ½ degree base edge bevel guide the file would not have hit any metal.  If as you say you managed to get some filing done you messed up your base edges.  The general thinking is that the base edge should not be touched as anything you do to it increases the bevel amount.  There is no way to decrease the base edge bevel, you can only increase it.  To decrease it requires a stone grind.

post #5 of 23

His base edge sounds fine. The metal coming off he mentioned was on the side edge which is OK. 

 

Still has to knock of the hanging burr from futzing with the side edge, but the base edge could just be lightly polished wih a 400 or 600 diamond and then skied. 

 

You friend does not sound at all knowledgeable , his .5 base edge recommendation was way off base (no pun intended), w/o a stone grind. 

 

Base edge tuning is an art and needs to be done by someone with serious experience, done wrong can really ruin a ski day!

 

A 1/3 (3 degree side edge) and 1 base will serve you well. 

post #6 of 23

Take A-man's advice here.

post #7 of 23
You need to understand that the base is the reference point for setting the base edge. If it isn't set first, your base edge is as variable as your base is.

Trying to set your base edge to a smaller (more flat) angle without first doing a base grind is like trying to cut your hair longer.

Since most manufacturing tunes suck, even though it is supposed to come with a 1* base tune, it was probably +/- a bit anyway. Sometimes manufacturers do a race tune on race skis and these are usually pretty good. I don't know what Volkl does.

You should get the bases flat, then set the base edge. I would do the side edge too.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

You need to understand that the base is the reference point for setting the base edge. If it isn't set first, your base edge is as variable as your base is.

Trying to set your base edge to a smaller (more flat) angle without first doing a base grind is like trying to cut your hair longer.

Since most manufacturing tunes suck, even though it is supposed to come with a 1* base tune, it was probably +/- a bit anyway. Sometimes manufacturers do a race tune on race skis and these are usually pretty good. I don't know what Volkl does.

You should get the bases flat, then set the base edge. I would do the side edge too.

Many manufactures tune do suck, but generally on wider rec. skis..I have not found this to be the case on Atomic nor Volkl race skis!

 

Remember....HE SKIED THEM BEFORE  THEY WORKED ON THEM AND THEY SKIED FINE!!!

 

Since they took no metal off the base edge...they should be OK,  no need to have a superfluous grind!  

 

A waste of time, $$ and base and base edge.........UNLESS........HE TAKES THEM BACK OUT AND SKIS THEM AGAIN AND THEY DON'T SKI RIGHT! 


Edited by Atomicman - 4/30/15 at 7:42am
post #9 of 23
OK. THANKS FOR REMINDING ME!
post #10 of 23
YEAH!!!!
post #11 of 23

YOU'RE WELCOME! :D

post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks thanks thanks !! smile.gif I'll go for base grind and base edge to 1, side to 3. I Think we did hit the base a tiny bit, eow, my friend wasn't right with the base I see...

How many times can bases be done in general? What is the durability/thickness of the metal like. I know it's like 2/2.2mm,
But how much is that actually??

Edit: my friend doesn't really have the necessary tools, and neighbour shop has good rep and brand new wintersteiger machines, so they'll do the job I guess.. smile.gif
post #13 of 23

I recommend setting a 0.5 base edge.  Base edge is a personal thing; I like 0.5 base on all my skis, except for skiing bumps, but I'm an outlier.  If you set 0.5, you can change it to 1 fairly easily, but you can't go the other way around without extending that edge bevel into the base (search long bevel)  if you don't want to grind off the base AGAIN.

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I recommend setting a 0.5 base edge.  Base edge is a personal thing; I like 0.5 base on all my skis, except for skiing bumps, but I'm an outlier.  If you set 0.5, you can change it to 1 fairly easily, but you can't go the other way around without extending that edge bevel into the base (search long bevel)  if you don't want to grind off the base AGAIN.

Thanks for your opinion! You might be right, but the factory 1 degree felt really good to me, so i might stick with that.
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post


Thanks for your opinion! You might be right, but the factory 1 degree felt really good to me, so i might stick with that.

Go ski 'em before you grind 'em. 

 

And for most folks .5 is an acquired flavah!

 

A true clean 1 degree skis very well and you do realize you can change side edge angles at will up or down with no grind .


Edited by Atomicman - 4/30/15 at 7:41am
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Go ski 'em before you grind 'em. 

And for most folks .5 is an acquired flavah!

A true clean 1 degree skis very well and you do realize you can change side edge angles at will up or down with no grind .

I do know with the side edge, but I'm a major rookie when it's about the base. Changing to 3 is no problem.

Maybe I should just go talk to the tuner and ask him to check with a truebar?

Oh and sorry, did ski them, edge hold is alright, but felt more reliable out of the box. Might also be because of the changed snow conditions, not sure :/ what scares me is that we did hit metal in a few spots...

I will bring them to the shop Saturday for storage wax, side edge and what do ya think about the base Atomicman? Ask to check with the bar? I guess there's no way I can do it myself, when I don't have one... :')

And should I be concerned with durability?? Skied full season this year, but on other ski. Next year will be full season aswell, before going back to usual 7-15 days per year..
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post


I do know with the side edge, but I'm a major rookie when it's about the base. Changing to 3 is no problem.

Maybe I should just go talk to the tuner and ask him to check with a truebar?

Oh and sorry, did ski them, edge hold is alright, but felt more reliable out of the box. Might also be because of the changed snow conditions, not sure :/ what scares me is that we did hit metal in a few spots...

I will bring them to the shop Saturday for storage wax, side edge and what do ya think about the base Atomicman? Ask to check with the bar? I guess there's no way I can do it myself, when I don't have one... :')

And should I be concerned with durability?? Skied full season this year, but on other ski. Next year will be full season aswell, before going back to usual 7-15 days per year..

Absolutely have them checked with a Truebar.    I only grind when the base edge gets over 1 degree or  the base edge has really taken a beating. I ONLY do routine maintenance on the side edges and leave the base edge alone once set properly.

 

I skied on a new pair of Atomic D2 GS for 2 seasons before grinding them. 

 

When you say more reliable, can you describe that in more detail?

post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Absolutely have them checked with a Truebar.    I only grind when the base edge gets over 1 degree or  the base edge has really taken a beating. I ONLY do routine maintenance on the side edges and leave the base edge alone once set properly.

I skied on a new pair of Atomic D2 GS for 2 seasons before grinding them. 

When you say more reliable, can you describe that in more detail?

They had better grip and no skidding. Now they feel razor sharp to the nail, but they seem to catch an edge unwanted sometimes. Also, the grip on ice isn't as good as before I touched them. A decent tuner should also be able to check if I did something bad or not with a truebar am I right?

God, hate how I might have fucked up some brand new skis :'))
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post


They had better grip and no skidding. Now they feel razor sharp to the nail, but they seem to catch an edge unwanted sometimes. Also, the grip on ice isn't as good as before I touched them. A decent tuner should also be able to check if I did something bad or not with a truebar am I right?

God, hate how I might have fucked up some brand new skis :'))

If you guys changed or did a lot of filing on the side edge, you needed to knock the hanging burr off or else the skis will act unrully. Rather unpredictable. The will feel like they don't want to roll on edge easily and once on edge don't want to roll back off. 

 

this is usually even worse on ice.  Very grabby feeling.  But, I am not sure that is the case. It is a little odd they would razor sharp, but not have as good a grip. It could be they are overbeveled on the base edge with a sharp side edge. 

 

Removing a Hanging burr!  Take an arkansas stone or surgical stone (not a gummi stone) place it flat against the base edge (best to do this with the ski in a vise side edge up bases away from you ) and make a couple medium pressure passes making sure to keep the stone flat to the base edge. It is best if about 1/4 to 1/3 the stone is above the side edge and use your thumb as a guide on the sidewall. .  99.9% tof the time the shop does not do this. (Ignorance usually!) Not removing...

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

If you guys changed or did a lot of filing on the side edge, you needed to knock the hanging burr off or else the skis will act unrully. Rather unpredictable. The will feel like they don't want to roll on edge easily and once on edge don't want to roll back off. 

this is usually even worse on ice.  Very grabby feeling.  But, I am not sure that is the case. It is a little odd they would razor sharp, but not have as good a grip. It could be they are overbeveled on the base edge with a sharp side edge. 

Removing a Hanging burr!  Take an arkansas stone or surgical stone (not a gummi stone) place it flat against the base edge (best to do this with the ski in a vise side edge up bases away from you ) and make a couple medium pressure passes making sure to keep the stone flat to the base edge. It is best if about 1/4 to 1/3 the stone is above the side edge and use your thumb as a guide on the sidewall. .  99.9% tof the time the shop does not do this. (Ignorance usually!) Not removing...

Thanks for the tip with the burr, appreciated, just like the rest of it. To be honest, I think the file might've been forced down to the base edge at some points, making it overbeveled. But setting it at 1 again, would require base grind right?
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowsgomooh View Post


Thanks for the tip with the burr, appreciated, just like the rest of it. To be honest, I think the file might've been forced down to the base edge at some points, making it overbeveled. But setting it at 1 again, would require base grind right?

Yes, if you actually took metal off the base edge increasing the bevel to over a 1 degree, it needs to be stoneground back to -0- and then a new consistent 1 degree imparted back on the edge. 

 

And yes, when they check it with a true-bar, they can tell if the base bevel is inconsistent. 

post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Yes, if you actually took metal off the base edge increasing the bevel to over a 1 degree, it needs to be stoneground back to -0- and then a new consistent 1 degree imparted back on the edge. 

And yes, when they check it with a true-bar, they can tell if the base bevel is inconsistent. 

Cool, search for a decent tune shop here in Tignes is on. Neighbour has new good machines I were told, but might try finding someone who does it by hand and pay that extra, as the tools are already sent back to my homecountry apparently...
post #23 of 23

Some new skis cup as the epoxy continues to cure.  The true bar should show this lack of a flat base.  Cupped, concave skis need to be re-tuned for sure.

 

I like 1° base edge bevel.  Actually, the best I ever had was ground to .75°, then the tips & tails feathered to 1°.  That's kinda iffy--who knows how accurate the calibration of the shop's edge grinder is.  The only work done to the base edge between tunes is to stone down any raised burr.

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