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2011 Kastle FX84 184 - Demo bindings - Page 3

post #61 of 66

All day I am dealing with customer relations issues. And it is not pretty - but some kind words, good faith, honesty and patience resolves most, if not all of the issues. If these two sides can not figure out the way to find a solution acceptable to both - then let faceless corporate squire decide (I love "Game of Thrones"). And remember - karma is a bitch.

Maybe policy on EpicSki should change? In the case of sellers it is already established that some reputation/connection to the site should be existing. Maybe it should be same for buyers - you should establish your presence on EpicSki as a member of the community before you get privilege/right to buy, sell and exchange gear.That way these kinds of problems would be contained to eBays, Craigslists and dark alleys. Community vs. marketplace

post #62 of 66

Last month, my father in law asked, "do you buy stuff on the Internet?  Aren't you afraid of getting screwed?".

 

I explained that I've both bought and sold thousands of dollars worth of items in hundreds of transactions with both companies and individuals over the last 10+ years.  I have had a couple of outright thefts of my money and several misunderstandings like this one but...The overwhelming majority have been good.  Had I avoided the risk altogether, I'm certain I would have paid a lot more overall for stuff I bought and received a lot less for stuff I've sold.  This far outweighs the risk.  If something goes a bit wrong like this deal, focus on what you want in the long run, be reasonable, acknowledge that some people are just unreasonable, and move on.

 

I agree with goranmilos, the transactions within on-line "communities" have been best.  Ebay used to be like that but they took over the return policy and pretty much don't allow real negative feedback.  I try hard to go above expectations when I buy and sell and, for the most part, a couple of emails back and forth or a phone call with the people you trade with can go a long way to avoiding problems up front.  I've had things, mostly fragile audio equipment packaged poorly, with shipping damage and always come to some fair resolution with the shipping company or seller.

 

I kind of like this "dispute" forum which is similar to what is happening here.

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?zdisp&1&ctg&0&50&

 

Open a dispute and read how they go down.  You think this group is geeky...

 

Epicski has the marketplace forum but no policies or feedback system.  I'm not sure if they think it is worth the efforts as they don't charge us but our active community here is a valuable audience to its advertisers.  Maybe something more primitive and simple like an open feedback/dispute forum would make sense.  We all could try to make it a habit to make a quick post when we buy or sell something to write a quick "thanks xxxx, the item arrived quickly and was better than described.  xxxx was great to deal with" at the end of our posts.  At least names are easily searchable.


Edited by Utagonian - 5/20/15 at 8:13am
post #63 of 66

Both of the above posts are thoughtful, pretty neat.  

 

And I don't think there is dishonesty in the present fx 84 ski transaction, just confusion about whether the buyer has a clean right to return the item under the standard ebay procedure as "not as described;" and whether the seller should just leave it at that, no problem, and move on.  

 

But I have to say I really like both the Epicski "for sale" arrangement and the ebay arrangement, at the same time.

 

I think it's 50 or so feedback points to be able to open a thread with a "for sale" item on
Epicski, plus there's the "for sale" or transaction feedback system separately, already (underutilized, perhaps).  Great balance to this.  I wouldn't change a thing.  In addition, this is a much more intimate, safer environment, and more knowledgeable all around, for buying and selling ski gear.  A real service.

 

Ebay is something else, and a different environment of necessity.  There are many specialty markets on ebay and elsewhere - for instance, car sales, mineral speciman sales or vintage guitar sales, where pressure, exaggeration and misdirection/misinformatioin are an unhappy endemic part of the environment.  You have to get used to it, buyer beware, and get a tough skin and real cautiousness.  You have to be suspicious to not get scammed.  And in such cases, thank God for the "customer (buyer) is always right" stance that ebay has taken.  

 

Yes, often buyers and sellers of goodwill can reach out and trust one another, "just get along," as Rodney King said.  But in my experience, salesmen in many fields look at themselves as "sharpies," a club of "wise guys," and look at customers as "marks" or "pigeons."  In real estate, for example, at a few companies I briefly worked for, they used to have regular salesmen meetings to figure out how to counter and manipulate any objection the "mark" or "buyer" might come up with.  And real estate salesman/broker licensing classes I took to get licensed, set up by the state itself, taught such dishonest techniques, taught by the top pushy salespeople in the field.  The rock and mineral business was the same way, though unregulated entirely.  In my experience, so is the vintage guitar market, to a large extent.  Others could probably think of examples as well.  

 

In buying used skis, I've experienced both types of sellers: people who were trying to omit or misinform from the get go to get more money, as their normal way of operating (almost all non-professionals); and people who were dealing with you honestly as a matter of course.  I want a policy that accounts for both.

 

Appropriate to their own settings, both Epicski and ebay do this, as near as I can tell.  


Edited by ski otter - 5/20/15 at 2:32pm
post #64 of 66

I want to apologize for any confusion for framing what I wrote in this thread in terms of ebay policy and practice instead of just Paypal or Paypal/ebay policy.  To me it's easier to understand that way - why the buyer is favored especially. Plus I did this partly because we tend to think of Paypal just as a transaction/money transfer company, or even credit card company, so what they are up to tends to get muddied and confuses.   It's cleaner to just think of them in this return/refund policy business as an extension of ebay, with its huge, successful experience in online buyer/seller interactions.  They've figured out a way to keep the whole process businesslike and honest without personal recriminations or integrity issues entering in, just as has Amazon, in their own way.  Is the item as described? Pretty simple.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 

Last month, my father in law asked, "do you buy stuff on the Internet?  Aren't you afraid of getting screwed?".

 

I explained that I've both bought and sold thousands of dollars worth of items in hundreds of transactions with both companies and individuals over the last 10+ years.  I have had a couple of outright thefts of my money and several misunderstandings like this one but...The overwhelming majority have been good.  Had I avoided the risk altogether, I'm certain I would have paid a lot more overall for stuff I bought and received a lot less for stuff I've sold.  This far outweighs the risk.  If something goes a bit wrong like this deal, focus on what you want in the long run, be reasonable, acknowledge that some people are just unreasonable, and move on.

 

I agree with goranmilos, the transactions within on-line "communities" have been best.  Ebay used to be like that but they took over the return policy and pretty much don't allow real negative feedback.  I try hard to go above expectations when I buy and sell and, for the most part, a couple of emails back and forth or a phone call with the people you trade with can go a long way to avoiding problems up front.  I've had things, mostly fragile audio equipment packaged poorly, with shipping damage and always come to some fair resolution with the shipping company or seller.

 

I kind of like this "dispute" forum which is similar to what is happening here.

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?zdisp&1&ctg&0&50&

 

Open a dispute and read how they go down.  You think this group is geeky...

 

Epicski has the marketplace forum but no policies or feedback system I'm not sure if they think it is worth the efforts as they don't charge us but our active community here is a valuable audience to its advertisers.  Maybe something more primitive and simple like an open feedback/dispute forum would make sense.  We all could try to make it a habit to make a quick post when we buy or sell something to write a quick "thanks xxxx, the item arrived quickly and was better than described.  xxxx was great to deal with" at the end of our posts.  At least names are easily searchable.

 

First, Epicski does have a feedback system, but one that often is not known about or used.  If you go to your profile, you'll find in the column under your avatar both "feedback" (with a ribbon) and "my feedback." If you click on "My feedback," you will see the "Trader Reputation" page pop up, where your trading feedback will be posted.  You have to remember to use this after every buy/sell transaction for this to be accurate, and so do your partners in these transactions.  I've been in one such transaction, but my trading partner didn't remember or know how to use this feature, which is common.  

 

Second, your quote above (bold red) about ebay taking over their return policy was for me a wonderful, groundbreaking thing.  In my experience, sellers had used retaliatory seller feedback to blackball and stifle buyers they had mistreated into not leaving negative feedback as buyers.   The threat of this blackballing had made buyer feedback unreliable, and had stifled ebay transactions, according to ebay research and my own experience.  

 

ebay/Paypal taking over return policy and ending seller feedback on buyers meant I could safely buy where it hadn't been prudent before, exercising the "not as described" return guarantee when necessary - such a relief, and a much safer, more fun buying experience in general. And as a buyer I could leave accurate feedback, really pointing out the bad apples, without being retaliated against.  Overall ebay transactions - and earnings - went up sharply as a result of these changes, with the safety and relief they gave to buyers.  With the greater involvement of buyers, sellers overall really have benefited too, bigtime.  It's a better environment.  

post #65 of 66
Any news on this issue?
post #66 of 66

I tried to negotiate a partial discount with Speerhead and he wasn't interested. I also asked if he would file a shipping damage claim and he refused again.

 

At that point, I began a dispute via PayPal which he immediately escalated to a claim. PayPal decided that the skis were not as described/damaged during shipping and asked for me to ship them back to Speerhead.

 

They have been shipped back to Speerhead already.

 

It's unfortunate that it ended this way, I was looking forward to trying a pair of Kastle FX's.

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